New Moro kris

[Sajen]

Hello,

just win this kris for small money by e-pray. 1900-1920?? Which tribe or area?
Here the pictures from the seller. Thank you very much for all comments and references,

Detlef

[Rick]

The blade may be older .
Low money ?

I believe the scabbard style is from Mindanao .
It may be a mix of blade and dress .

Mountings look old (not as old as the blade) to me .

Congratulations Sajen .

[Battara]

Rick got the right island.

I would put it at Maguindanao tribe, which is on the east side of the island of Mindanao.

Age - perhaps 1920-1940? The blade however is definitely older, late 1800s to 1900? Good that it has a separate ganga.

[Rick]

I definitely admit to confusion, Jose .
Maguindanao, Maranao, I get those two mixed up .

[Sajen]

Thank you Rick and Jose for assign the origin and age of the kris. I special like the old cloth wrap/anting-anting at the sheath.

[Battara]

Rick - it would be easy to confuse the two, they are next door neighbors!

Sajen - you are welcome and I did not even see the mansala (cloth) until you mentioned it......

Also a light etch might bring out a pattern in the blade.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Battara

Rick - it would be easy to confuse the two, they are next door neighbors!

Sajen - you are welcome and I did not even see the mansala (cloth) until you mentioned it......

Also a light etch might bring out a pattern in the blade.

Thank you Jose, of course I will clean and etch the blade!

[Sajen]

Yesterday I received the kris and I was enjoyable surprised. The handle fittings seem to be from silver plated brass and the asang-asang from silver (not tested until now). The sheath is from very soft wood but is in good condition. I have cleaned all, the blade I start to polish to be able to etch it the next days.
Here some fast taken pictures by lamplight so please excuse the quality.

[Battara]

Congratulations! Silver plate was common among the Maguindanao and Maranao.

Cleaned up nicely. Can't wait to see the laminations in the blade.

[Sajen]

Thank you Jose. The lamination is existent but will need some time until the blade is clean and I have time to etch the blade.

[kai]

Hello Detlef,

I do like the really old blade - nice style and good scrollwork! BTW, what's the blade length?

Is this later pommel style more common in the upriver region rather than downriver? OTOH, since the crest obviously got broken off, it may have been sanded down from more elaborate kakatua forms; the angular grip seems to be a later development on Mindanao though.

The lamination is existent but will need some time until the blade is clean and I have time to etch the blade.

The blade looks clean enough for an etch already. However, make sure to clean the cold shut at the tip thoroughly or you will see active rust creeping out of it rather sooner than later...

If you were feeling adventurous (or bored ), you could try to get the hilt off: Due to the attachment strips running outside the ferrule, there's a good chance that you can detach the asang-asang and hilt without any damage. Of course, this will make cleaning and etching the blade much easier. More important would be IMHO that you could try to reattach the hilt with the attachment strips running inside the ferrule which should look a lot nicer.

Regards,
Kai

[Sajen]

Hello Kai,

thank you for your usual informed comment. The length is 57 cm (22.4 inch). I am not sure that the crest got broken off formerly, I think I have seen this form before but I may be wrong.
The blade wasn't clean down from the hilt at the gangya area but it was done this evening and I have etched the blade. The reaction was very fast and you can see the result by the attached images.
In the moment I am afraid to open the hilt because I am not used with this technic, maybe later when I am trained by this.

Please let all know me what you think about the result, was the etch to strong?

[Battara]

Interesting and subtle laminations...........

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Battara

Interesting and subtle laminations...........

I am very surprised by the very fast reaction and strong contrast since I have had by my other kris blades no reaction or a very low contrast.
What do think about the pommel? Is it recarved or original like this?

Best regards,

Detlef

[Battara]

Hard to say for sure, would need to see details of the back end of the pommel.

[Sajen]

Here some close-up's to get a imagination of the pommel's shape. Hope it helps.

[David]

It looks to me that it might have been recarved after a breakage. I know the type of kakatua you are referring to that has a similar profile that seem to have popped up in early 20th pieces, but i don't think this is one of them.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by David

It looks to me that it might have been recarved after a breakage. I know the type of kakatua you are referring to that has a similar profile that seem to have popped up in early 20th pieces, but i don't think this is one of them.

Yes David, I think we have the same type of kakatua in mind. Here is a example I found by Oriental-Arms.

[Battara]

Hard to tell, but I think this could be original. I have had ones similar to this. (Thus I would leave the pommel alone)

Below is one Maguindanao one that I had and restored (only picture of it is on Federico's site) with silver around the top:

[David]

Originally Posted by Battara

Hard to tell, but I think this could be original. I have had ones similar to this. (Thus I would leave the pommel alone)

Below is one Maguindanao one that I had and restored (only picture of it is on Federico's site) with silver around the top:

HEY! That kris is in MY collection these days!!!

[David]

The last light of the afternoon was just fading, but i had enough time to get this quick shot if it helps.

[Battara]

Yep that's the one! Glad you have it - it was one of my early pieces and after restoration I sold it.

Notice the pommel - same profile.

Again congratulations David - I kind of miss that one (even used it in an escrima demonstration once! ).

[Rick]

Nice etch, you can always lighten it a bit with more polishing .

I don't think this pommel is a recarve .

Were I you; I would not attempt to unmount it .
I expect the work for better or worse is of local origin .
As such, IMO, it should be left alone .

You got a good sword .

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by David

The last light of the afternoon was just fading, but i had enough time to get this quick shot if it helps.

Yes, same profile of the pommel! Very nice kris you have got from Jose and great restore job from him. It seems from the picture Jose posted that it have nearly the same way of lamination.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Rick

Nice etch, you can always lighten it a bit with more polishing .

I don't think this pommel is a recarve .

Were I you; I would not attempt to unmount it .
I expect the work for better or worse is of local origin .
As such, IMO, it should be left alone .

You got a good sword .

Thank you Rick. All the more I look to the strong etch I like it and think that I will let it like this same as the handle mounts, it's original and like this I will let it.

[David]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Yes, same profile of the pommel! Very nice kris you have got from Jose and great restore job from him. It semms from the picture Jose posted that it have nearly the same way of lamination.

Yes, it's laminations are similar. And for the record i got this off Spunger a few years ago via José so it made the rounds...

[Sajen]

Here a second example of the same pommel style from Oriental-Arms.

[Battara]

Yes that is why I with Rick say to leave the pommel alone - it appears to be a Maguindanao style.

And yes I sold mine to Spunger originally. A great piece (too bad I needed the money at the time ).

Thank for the comments Sajen. One of my earliest restoration projects.

[kai]

Examples of this pommel style which were obviously original never show a distinct beak (i. e. both, beak and crest, heavily stylized). Since Detlef's examples has a distinct beak and also the flow of lines where the crest could have been seems to be unusual, I'd guess that the original pommel got recarved a long time ago.

Regards,
Kai

[David]

Originally Posted by kai

Examples of this pommel style which were obviously original never show a distinct beak (i. e. both, beak and crest, heavily stylized). Since Detlef's examples has a distinct beak and also the flow of lines where the crest could have been seems to be unusual, I'd guess that the original pommel got recarved a long time ago.
Regards,
Kai

Well that's my thought as well Kai. To me Sajen's pommel looks unbalanced while these other examples do not. So i vote that it broke some time ago and was recarved. Still i would also agree with the others to leave the pommel as is. Recarved or not it is what it is and i wouldn't attempt to change anything.