VOC BLADES

Jim McDougall · 14th February 2014, 05:26 PM

In discussions on the ethnographic forum we have been discussing the Sinhalese kastane, and with many of these they are mounted with blades with the VOC balemark along with large block letter dates. It seems the dates are invariably 18th century from 1730s to 1770s. .

I thought that it would be good to post this query here since clearly these are European blades in origin, though often found in ethnographic circumstances. Actually that was one of the reasons this forum was founded, for larger scope study of the arms from European context found in so many ethnographic weapons.

Would anyone be able to help in posting blades with VOC balemarks and dates? I am also curious why these large dates (years) were emblazoned on the blades, but only in that span of years in the 18th century . Would these have been an inventory related marking system?

I would be most grateful for any assistance, thank you.
Jim

M ELEY · 15th February 2014, 03:57 AM

Excellent question, Jim, as I have also always wondered about the specific dates on these. Unfortunately, I have nothing to add other than my curiosity! Are we assuming, ten, that the dates are not talisminic or dates of special events from the past? I've seen so many Dutch sabers with the 1770 and 1740 date on them, I began to think that was the case, but hopefully someone will enlighten us. Jasper, are you out there?

Jim McDougall · 15th February 2014, 05:31 AM

Hey Capn Mark!
I knew I could count on you to answer! We always have the same curiosities

Actually from what I have found so far, these dates range from 1730s into 1770s. I recall some years ago when it seems I had come across a number which had 1768. In discussion back about 2011 someone had one with 1606 and the VOC and you brought up a 1660 similar if I recall, and I believe that suggestion regarding talismanic numbers was more in place than these 18th century examples.
I had thoughts these might be issue dates, similar to the 'dump' coins for trade, but then found that regularly hilted cutlasses had these dates and balemarks, so they must have been issued to VOC sailors whether as individuals or rack, unclear on that.

As you note, Jasper will likely have good insight here and hopefully he will see this.

All the best,
Jim

M ELEY · 16th February 2014, 05:11 AM

I was perusing through my copy of Neumann's and saw several Dutch examples so marked. I'm going by memory, as I'm at work, but I think they were 1744, 1770 and 1768? These dates seem to always be the same, so perhaps they are simply the years of manufacture for those blades? As in, a large quantity being produced in that year? I really don't know anything when it comes to how the Dutch inventoried their swords.

I have a m1790 Dutch marinesabal with no markings, indicating (I'm told) exported example. Most Dutch swords of the latter 18th c. and beyond were heavily marked with numerous arsenal numbers and such. These earlier examples we are discussing are a puzzle, though-

14th February 2014, 05:26 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	VOC BLADES In discussions on the ethnographic forum we have been discussing the Sinhalese kastane, and with many of these they are mounted with blades with the VOC balemark along with large block letter dates. It seems the dates are invariably 18th century from 1730s to 1770s. . I thought that it would be good to post this query here since clearly these are European blades in origin, though often found in ethnographic circumstances. Actually that was one of the reasons this forum was founded, for larger scope study of the arms from European context found in so many ethnographic weapons. Would anyone be able to help in posting blades with VOC balemarks and dates? I am also curious why these large dates (years) were emblazoned on the blades, but only in that span of years in the 18th century . Would these have been an inventory related marking system? I would be most grateful for any assistance, thank you. Jim

15th February 2014, 03:57 AM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	Excellent question, Jim, as I have also always wondered about the specific dates on these. Unfortunately, I have nothing to add other than my curiosity! Are we assuming, ten, that the dates are not talisminic or dates of special events from the past? I've seen so many Dutch sabers with the 1770 and 1740 date on them, I began to think that was the case, but hopefully someone will enlighten us. Jasper, are you out there?

15th February 2014, 05:31 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	Hey Capn Mark! I knew I could count on you to answer! We always have the same curiosities Actually from what I have found so far, these dates range from 1730s into 1770s. I recall some years ago when it seems I had come across a number which had 1768. In discussion back about 2011 someone had one with 1606 and the VOC and you brought up a 1660 similar if I recall, and I believe that suggestion regarding talismanic numbers was more in place than these 18th century examples. I had thoughts these might be issue dates, similar to the 'dump' coins for trade, but then found that regularly hilted cutlasses had these dates and balemarks, so they must have been issued to VOC sailors whether as individuals or rack, unclear on that. As you note, Jasper will likely have good insight here and hopefully he will see this. All the best, Jim

16th February 2014, 05:11 AM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	I was perusing through my copy of Neumann's and saw several Dutch examples so marked. I'm going by memory, as I'm at work, but I think they were 1744, 1770 and 1768? These dates seem to always be the same, so perhaps they are simply the years of manufacture for those blades? As in, a large quantity being produced in that year? I really don't know anything when it comes to how the Dutch inventoried their swords. I have a m1790 Dutch marinesabal with no markings, indicating (I'm told) exported example. Most Dutch swords of the latter 18th c. and beyond were heavily marked with numerous arsenal numbers and such. These earlier examples we are discussing are a puzzle, though-