A Madura Keris?

milandro · 17th January 2022, 10:13 AM

Hello Again, the second keris that I would ike to bring to your attention was bought from the same estate. This collector passed away some 35 years ago and bought his Krises 50 to 60 years ago from a shop in the Netherlands.

The Ukiran, Warangka en Pendok are certainly all contemporary between themselves and to me they were made to purpose, do they show a parrot?. I am reasonably sure that the wilah is also contemporary to the keris although some people in the Netherlands have been speculating that this was an older wilah which was born without the carving and then this was added afterwards.

I am not sure what to think. I like the wilah very much and it shows a peacock ( merak) with a tail in the form resembling a Naga , the pamor is present within and outside the engraving.

kai · 18th January 2022, 02:32 PM

Hello Milandro,

Looks modern era (kamardikan, i.e. after Indonesian independence) to me.

Usually these don't hold up well to traditional standards but some can be quite artistic creations.

Regards,
Kai

milandro · 18th January 2022, 03:45 PM

Thanks, what I like in this piece is the apparent care (or so it looks to me) to have both pamor and the engraving superimposed.

A. G. Maisey · 18th January 2022, 10:55 PM

Milandro, the element that you have commented on is a natural product of this type of work in this type of keris, it is pretty much what we expect to see.

David · 19th January 2022, 05:37 AM

Welcome to the forum Milandro.
I do have to say that i seriously doubt this keris could be 60 or even 50 years old give the the time frame in which the keris arts were resurrected. I this most certainly is a modern blade made in Madura. I think the earliest this could possibly be would be the 1980-90s.
Please not that this ensemble does not have a pendok.

milandro · 19th January 2022, 09:24 AM

the person whom bought this keris died 35 years ago, the daughter was cleaning the house because her mother was now being moved to a new house and her recollection was that her father bought these at least 50 years ago.

She didn’t use the story to sell the keris , I have asked about the background, which she gave. I have no reason to doubt her, she certainly didn’t buy the keris herself because she knew nothing about kerisses.

She told me that her father had a large collection and that after his death most was sold but they kept 4 kerisses as a memento of their father (there was also Indonesian furniture and woodcuttings and batiks) .

A. G. Maisey · 19th January 2022, 08:05 PM

35 years takes us back to 1985, I'd guess that dating is possible.

The Boys from Madura didn't really get up & running until about the mid 1980's, and my recollection tells me that this sort of very well carved blade did not start to appear until around the early 1990's.

But I guess anything is possible.

In any case, no matter when it was made, its pretty nice work.

David · 21st January 2022, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milandro

the person whom bought this keris died 35 years ago, the daughter was cleaning the house because her mother was now being moved to a new house and her recollection was that her father bought these at least 50 years ago.

She didn’t use the story to sell the keris , I have asked about the background, which she gave. I have no reason to doubt her, she certainly didn’t buy the keris herself because she knew nothing about kerisses.

She told me that her father had a large collection and that after his death most was sold but they kept 4 kerisses as a memento of their father (there was also Indonesian furniture and woodcuttings and batiks) .

I wasn't suggesting that this man's daughter lied to you to make a sale. But family histories often get confused and muddled especially more than 3 decades later.
I am not sure how interested this man's wife was in his keris collecting interest. I will say that while my own wife understands my passion and what draws me to collecting keris, she would be pretty hard pressed to be able to tell whether i purchased any particular keris in my collection last week or 30 years ago. 35 years after my death i a sure she would not know, unless i left specific notation to the facts of acquisition surrounding each piece. I don't have a daughter, but i would imagine that she would know even less about such matters. This may well have been one of the very last keris this man purchased before his death. Who knows. But while i can see the possibility that he might have bought this as a new keris in 1986 i am afraid i do not see much possibility that this keris was created as early as 1972. It is what is commonly referred to as karmardikan keris made in Madura, from the new era of keris making that didn't even begin until after the 1970s.

17th January 2022, 10:13 AM	#1
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 475	A Madura Keris? Hello Again, the second keris that I would ike to bring to your attention was bought from the same estate. This collector passed away some 35 years ago and bought his Krises 50 to 60 years ago from a shop in the Netherlands. The Ukiran, Warangka en Pendok are certainly all contemporary between themselves and to me they were made to purpose, do they show a parrot?. I am reasonably sure that the wilah is also contemporary to the keris although some people in the Netherlands have been speculating that this was an older wilah which was born without the carving and then this was added afterwards. I am not sure what to think. I like the wilah very much and it shows a peacock ( merak) with a tail in the form resembling a Naga , the pamor is present within and outside the engraving. Attached Images

18th January 2022, 02:32 PM	#2
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Milandro, Looks modern era (kamardikan, i.e. after Indonesian independence) to me. Usually these don't hold up well to traditional standards but some can be quite artistic creations. Regards, Kai

18th January 2022, 03:45 PM	#3
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 475	Thanks, what I like in this piece is the apparent care (or so it looks to me) to have both pamor and the engraving superimposed.

18th January 2022, 10:55 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Milandro, the element that you have commented on is a natural product of this type of work in this type of keris, it is pretty much what we expect to see.

19th January 2022, 05:37 AM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	Welcome to the forum Milandro. I do have to say that i seriously doubt this keris could be 60 or even 50 years old give the the time frame in which the keris arts were resurrected. I this most certainly is a modern blade made in Madura. I think the earliest this could possibly be would be the 1980-90s. Please not that this ensemble does not have a pendok.

19th January 2022, 09:24 AM	#6
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 475	the person whom bought this keris died 35 years ago, the daughter was cleaning the house because her mother was now being moved to a new house and her recollection was that her father bought these at least 50 years ago. She didn’t use the story to sell the keris , I have asked about the background, which she gave. I have no reason to doubt her, she certainly didn’t buy the keris herself because she knew nothing about kerisses. She told me that her father had a large collection and that after his death most was sold but they kept 4 kerisses as a memento of their father (there was also Indonesian furniture and woodcuttings and batiks) .

19th January 2022, 08:05 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	35 years takes us back to 1985, I'd guess that dating is possible. The Boys from Madura didn't really get up & running until about the mid 1980's, and my recollection tells me that this sort of very well carved blade did not start to appear until around the early 1990's. But I guess anything is possible. In any case, no matter when it was made, its pretty nice work.