Penis or mushroom

Tim Simmons · 6th May 2009, 05:48 PM

Club. This is my latest club New Caledonia. I was forced to push the boat out but I think it was well worth it. This decoration when seen on ceramics is classifed as tracks of the centipede which is interesting. Shown next to a big knobkerrie.

Jim McDougall · 6th May 2009, 06:18 PM

Gasp!!!!

Tim!!! I gotta say my heart stopped in reading this way unusual title!

OK, we'll leave it 'anatomical'

in analogy. I always think of the poor Victorians with the 'ballock' daggers, and thier desperate attempt to liken them to a more prudently acceptable anatomical part, the kidney.

I will say incredibly 'interesting' items, and good note on the motif linked to centipede tracks. I always appreciate that kind of insight on the symbolism found on weaponry.

All the best,
Jim

VANDOO · 6th May 2009, 06:47 PM

ITS NOT A MUSHROOM

THE PHALLIC SYMBOLISM IS FAIRLY COMMON ON MANY OLD CLUBS. IT WAS QUITE COMMON IN FIJI BUT MOST OF THE NEWER ONES HAVE A BUTT END THAT IS EITHER FLAT OR HAS A SMALL POTRUSION WITH A HOLE IN IT FOR A WRIST CORD. PERHAPS IT WAS DUE TO TONGAN INFLUENCE OR THE INFLUENCE OF MISSIONARIES IN LATER TIMES

HERE IS A OLD FIJI CLUB WITH THE FULL PHALLIC HANDLE I READ SOMEWHERE THAT BEFORE BATTLE AND DURING CERTIAN DANCES THE WARRIORS WOULD HOLD THIS KIND OF CLUB BY THE SPUR ON THE STRIKING END AND BRANDISH THE HANDLE AT THE ENEMY OR PERHAPS BEST GAL. THIS KIND OF CLUB IS OFTEN REFERRED TO AS A GUNSTOCK CLUB BUT I BELIEVE IT PREDATES EXPOSURE TO OUTSIDE INFLUENCES.
UNFORTUNATELY THERE WAS A PERIOD IN THE ISLANDS WHEN THE OLD CLUBS WERE LEFT IN A STORAGE HUT SOMEWHERE WHILE STEEL AXES AND OTHER WEAPONS REPLACED THEM SO MOST WERE LOST TO TERMITES OR EXPOSURE OR ARE NOT IN GOOD SHAPE. THE ONES BROUGHT BACK BY EARLY EXPLORERS LIKE COOK BEING THE EXAMPLES OF THE OLD CLUB FORMS IN THE BEST CONDITION.

Jim McDougall · 6th May 2009, 08:11 PM

Nicely done Vandoo!....'phallic'......much gooder!!!

KuKulzA28 · 6th May 2009, 09:25 PM

Looks like a penis to me...

I've heard the crook in the above club can be used to shatter necks...

it all just gives "f*** my life" a deeper meaning... or just a more painful one

Rick · 6th May 2009, 11:15 PM

Please spare us the F bomb; kthnx .

asomotif · 6th May 2009, 11:49 PM

I am not sure if they have mushrooms on those islands

Phallic is a decent word and indeed not a very rare symbol.

Same as with keris, the smaller examples could be considered womens clubs

(sorry could not help it)

KuKulzA28 · 7th May 2009, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Please spare us the F bomb; kthnx .

my apologies - edited

fearn · 8th May 2009, 06:00 AM

Hoo boy. Let's go off to the side for a sec. If you look up the scientific name of the stinkhorn family, you'll find that the group is known as the Phallaceae. Need I say more about their shape? One of them is colloquially known as the "devil's dipstick (scientific name: Mutinus caninus). That one's kept students giggling for years.

Basically, mushrooms have been looking phallic since long before humans were around to use their own phalluses. It's an efficient shape for certain functions. That includes club heads and hilts. Sometimes a club is just a....never mind.

And yes, there are mushrooms in New Caledonia. Whether this club is supposed to be a mushroom, a phallus, or both...I'm not sure.

Neat object though.

F

VANDOO · 8th May 2009, 06:50 AM

I USUALLY HAVE SEEN THE MUSHROOM REPRESENTED IN ETHINOGRAPHIC ITEMS AS HAVING TO DO WITH SHAMAN OR WITCHDOCTOR OR DRUIDS AS THEY WERE OFTEN USED IN MAGIC CEREMONIES IN MANY CULTURES OVER THE WORLD. THE MAGIC MUSHROOM AS WELL AS OTHER PHYSOACTIVE THINGS HAVE BEEN USED FOR SEEING, HEALING AND MAKING PROPHSIES. MUSHROOMS CAN BE EATEN OR CAN BE USED AS A DEADLY POSION BUT MOST ARCHEOLOGICAL REPRESENTATIONS OF THEM FOUND USUALLY HAVE TO DO WITH THEIR MAGICAL PROPERTIES. THERE IS A VERY PHALLIC STONE CARVEING IN A MUSEUM IN MEXICO ? THAT HAS THE PICTURE OF SEVERAL PSYCOACTIVE PLANTS CARVED ON IT. FOR A LONG TIME IT WAS THOUGHT TO HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH FERTILITY SYMBOLS BEFORE THEY DISCOVERED WHAT IT TRULY WAS. THERE ARE PHALLIC FERTILITY SYMBOLS IN MANY CLUTURES AS WELL.
BUT GENERALLY THE PHALLIC SYMBOLISM IN A WARRIORS WEAPONS HAS TO DO WITH HIS MANLINESS AND OF COURSE TO WAG IT AT THE ENEMY OR SHOW YOUR BEHIND IS A DEFINITE INSULT TODAY AS WELL AS IN THE DISTANT PAST.

fearn · 9th May 2009, 02:38 AM

Hi Vandoo,

I think you left out the most famous culture that used: the Mycenae. That's where we get the mycology, the study of fungi from. Their capital city may have been named after a mushroom (mykes, link). Not sure what Perseus was up to in naming Mycenae, and I'm really not sure why the Greek word for mushroom is the same as the word for the "cap" of a scabbard (which may have fallen off of Perseus' sword, causing Perseus to name the accident site Mycenae). Whichever.

Aside from the Eleusinean mysteries, I've never seen any suggestion that the bronze-age Greeks had anything to do with hallucinogenic fungi, and I'm pretty sure they never touched magic mushrooms. Some people have suggested that rye ergot was behind the Eleusinian mysteries, but we'll probably never know.

I'd also point out that on bronze Hallstatt swords, that "Mexican hat" pommel sure looks like a mushroom to me, but it is somewhat phallic, too. That mushroom or phallic head is a useful shape for some things.

Best,

F

Tim Simmons · 9th May 2009, 08:02 AM

It is a little more obvious in this form.
http://www.spearchuckasart.com/default.asp?PageID=83

6th May 2009, 05:48 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,781	Penis or mushroom Club. This is my latest club New Caledonia. I was forced to push the boat out but I think it was well worth it. This decoration when seen on ceramics is classifed as tracks of the centipede which is interesting. Shown next to a big knobkerrie. Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 6th May 2009 at 06:08 PM.

6th May 2009, 06:47 PM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	ITS NOT A MUSHROOM THE PHALLIC SYMBOLISM IS FAIRLY COMMON ON MANY OLD CLUBS. IT WAS QUITE COMMON IN FIJI BUT MOST OF THE NEWER ONES HAVE A BUTT END THAT IS EITHER FLAT OR HAS A SMALL POTRUSION WITH A HOLE IN IT FOR A WRIST CORD. PERHAPS IT WAS DUE TO TONGAN INFLUENCE OR THE INFLUENCE OF MISSIONARIES IN LATER TIMES HERE IS A OLD FIJI CLUB WITH THE FULL PHALLIC HANDLE I READ SOMEWHERE THAT BEFORE BATTLE AND DURING CERTIAN DANCES THE WARRIORS WOULD HOLD THIS KIND OF CLUB BY THE SPUR ON THE STRIKING END AND BRANDISH THE HANDLE AT THE ENEMY OR PERHAPS BEST GAL. THIS KIND OF CLUB IS OFTEN REFERRED TO AS A GUNSTOCK CLUB BUT I BELIEVE IT PREDATES EXPOSURE TO OUTSIDE INFLUENCES. UNFORTUNATELY THERE WAS A PERIOD IN THE ISLANDS WHEN THE OLD CLUBS WERE LEFT IN A STORAGE HUT SOMEWHERE WHILE STEEL AXES AND OTHER WEAPONS REPLACED THEM SO MOST WERE LOST TO TERMITES OR EXPOSURE OR ARE NOT IN GOOD SHAPE. THE ONES BROUGHT BACK BY EARLY EXPLORERS LIKE COOK BEING THE EXAMPLES OF THE OLD CLUB FORMS IN THE BEST CONDITION. Attached Images

6th May 2009, 09:25 PM	#5
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Looks like a penis to me... I've heard the crook in the above club can be used to shatter necks... it all just gives "f** my life"* a deeper meaning... or just a more painful one Last edited by KuKulzA28; 7th May 2009 at 01:48 AM.

6th May 2009, 11:49 PM	#7
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,224	Phallic or Mushroom I am not sure if they have mushrooms on those islands Phallic is a decent word and indeed not a very rare symbol. Same as with keris, the smaller examples could be considered womens clubs (sorry could not help it)

6th May 2009, 06:18 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,896	Gasp!!!! Tim!!! I gotta say my heart stopped in reading this way unusual title! OK, we'll leave it 'anatomical' in analogy. I always think of the poor Victorians with the 'ballock' daggers, and thier desperate attempt to liken them to a more prudently acceptable anatomical part, the kidney. I will say incredibly 'interesting' items, and good note on the motif linked to centipede tracks. I always appreciate that kind of insight on the symbolism found on weaponry. All the best, Jim

6th May 2009, 08:11 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,896	Nicely done Vandoo!....'phallic'......much gooder!!!

6th May 2009, 11:15 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,287	Please spare us the F bomb; kthnx .

8th May 2009, 06:00 AM	#9
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hoo boy. Let's go off to the side for a sec. If you look up the scientific name of the stinkhorn family, you'll find that the group is known as the Phallaceae. Need I say more about their shape? One of them is colloquially known as the "devil's dipstick (scientific name: Mutinus caninus). That one's kept students giggling for years. Basically, mushrooms have been looking phallic since long before humans were around to use their own phalluses. It's an efficient shape for certain functions. That includes club heads and hilts. Sometimes a club is just a....never mind. And yes, there are mushrooms in New Caledonia. Whether this club is supposed to be a mushroom, a phallus, or both...I'm not sure. Neat object though. F

8th May 2009, 06:50 AM	#10
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I USUALLY HAVE SEEN THE MUSHROOM REPRESENTED IN ETHINOGRAPHIC ITEMS AS HAVING TO DO WITH SHAMAN OR WITCHDOCTOR OR DRUIDS AS THEY WERE OFTEN USED IN MAGIC CEREMONIES IN MANY CULTURES OVER THE WORLD. THE MAGIC MUSHROOM AS WELL AS OTHER PHYSOACTIVE THINGS HAVE BEEN USED FOR SEEING, HEALING AND MAKING PROPHSIES. MUSHROOMS CAN BE EATEN OR CAN BE USED AS A DEADLY POSION BUT MOST ARCHEOLOGICAL REPRESENTATIONS OF THEM FOUND USUALLY HAVE TO DO WITH THEIR MAGICAL PROPERTIES. THERE IS A VERY PHALLIC STONE CARVEING IN A MUSEUM IN MEXICO ? THAT HAS THE PICTURE OF SEVERAL PSYCOACTIVE PLANTS CARVED ON IT. FOR A LONG TIME IT WAS THOUGHT TO HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH FERTILITY SYMBOLS BEFORE THEY DISCOVERED WHAT IT TRULY WAS. THERE ARE PHALLIC FERTILITY SYMBOLS IN MANY CLUTURES AS WELL. BUT GENERALLY THE PHALLIC SYMBOLISM IN A WARRIORS WEAPONS HAS TO DO WITH HIS MANLINESS AND OF COURSE TO WAG IT AT THE ENEMY OR SHOW YOUR BEHIND IS A DEFINITE INSULT TODAY AS WELL AS IN THE DISTANT PAST.

9th May 2009, 02:38 AM	#11
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Vandoo, I think you left out the most famous culture that used: the Mycenae. That's where we get the mycology, the study of fungi from. Their capital city may have been named after a mushroom (mykes, link). Not sure what Perseus was up to in naming Mycenae, and I'm really not sure why the Greek word for mushroom is the same as the word for the "cap" of a scabbard (which may have fallen off of Perseus' sword, causing Perseus to name the accident site Mycenae). Whichever. Aside from the Eleusinean mysteries, I've never seen any suggestion that the bronze-age Greeks had anything to do with hallucinogenic fungi, and I'm pretty sure they never touched magic mushrooms. Some people have suggested that rye ergot was behind the Eleusinian mysteries, but we'll probably never know. I'd also point out that on bronze Hallstatt swords, that "Mexican hat" pommel sure looks like a mushroom to me, but it is somewhat phallic, too. That mushroom or phallic head is a useful shape for some things. Best, F

9th May 2009, 08:02 AM	#12
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,781	It is a little more obvious in this form. http://www.spearchuckasart.com/default.asp?PageID=83