Two Late Gothic Tiller Guns, ca. 1400-20 and 1450

Matchlock · 25th March 2012, 05:08 PM

Both are relatively light, of small-bore and easy to handle.

The first item may not have been made long after the Hussite Wars were over, mid to early second half of the 15th century.
Its wrought-iron barrel is of cylindrical round section throughout, with only slight swamping of the muzzle area, the large touch hole situated on top. As it has a hook, it was apt for both stationary and field use. The integral iron tiller terminates in a ring.
Overall length 77 cm, bore 14 mm.

The second is even smaller, and notably earlier, of ca. 1400-1420 and may be attributed to the period of the Hussite Wars. It stlll shows the early style of reinforcing the actual barrel by separate iron coating (breech scetion) and rings (central and muzzle section). The touch hole is on top and, as on most guns around 1400, of relatively small diameter. The tiller is broken off, retaining just a fragmentary portion. This was a light long gun for field use.
The surface still shows traces of original minmium (red lead) paint, so this item was originally all red instead of black and rusty like today.
Overall length, as fragmented, 30 cm, bore 24 mm.

Best,
Michael

Spiridonov · 25th March 2012, 11:01 PM

Great find, Michael!

Matchlock · 26th March 2012, 12:01 AM

Thank you, Alexender,

Btw, as my most experienced competency mate on this subject

: do you think my dating / age determination is correct?

Best,
Michael

Marcus den toom · 22nd September 2014, 10:29 AM

That second one reminds me of these tiller guns in this manuscript: Martin le Franc (c. 1410 – 1461): Le Champion des Dames. Flandres 1442. Bibliothèque royale de Belgique, Bruxelles 9466, Fol. 4r. Found on Pinterest.

The tiller guns depicted here seem to have an ignition mechanism integrated with it?

Spiridonov · 22nd September 2014, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus den toom

That second one reminds me of these tiller guns in this manuscript: Martin le Franc (c. 1410 – 1461): Le Champion des Dames. Flandres 1442. Bibliothèque royale de Belgique, Bruxelles 9466, Fol. 4r. Found on Pinterest.

The tiller guns depicted here seem to have an ignition mechanism integrated with it?

I was thinking about this picture about 2-3 years ago. Then I have came to the conclusion that it just flexible steel spring fitted by nails from one end and tinder grasped in another end. And it seems that handgonners push on the free end of the spring by his thumbs to bend it so that tinder go into the touch hole. It doesn't look like "classic" serpentine

Matchlock · 10th October 2014, 09:47 PM

Shame on me -

I have to admit that I did not notice my friend Marcus's post - thank you so much, Alexender, my Russian friend, for pointing it out to me.

Marcus, those illustrations are really great.
If it were not for your effort, and spending many hours searching the web for such important sources, all of us students of weaponry would be far less enlightened ...

Also, your young eyes are much better than mine.

Anyway - without your hint, I would have overlooked that delicate long and flat igniting action hovering tightly above the surface of the barrel ...
Actually, that wormlike tinderholder seems to be spring loaded, or, as Alexender has suggested, be nothing but a leaf spring moved manually.
Alexender, I am convinced that your thinking, as always, is logical and correct.
I cannot imagine any other way how this action might possibly work.

With my very best wishes to Alexender and Marcus.
Michl/Michael

.

25th March 2012, 05:08 PM	#1
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Two Late Gothic Tiller Guns, ca. 1400-20 and 1450 Both are relatively light, of small-bore and easy to handle. The first item may not have been made long after the Hussite Wars were over, mid to early second half of the 15th century. Its wrought-iron barrel is of cylindrical round section throughout, with only slight swamping of the muzzle area, the large touch hole situated on top. As it has a hook, it was apt for both stationary and field use. The integral iron tiller terminates in a ring. Overall length 77 cm, bore 14 mm. The second is even smaller, and notably earlier, of ca. 1400-1420 and may be attributed to the period of the Hussite Wars. It stlll shows the early style of reinforcing the actual barrel by separate iron coating (breech scetion) and rings (central and muzzle section). The touch hole is on top and, as on most guns around 1400, of relatively small diameter. The tiller is broken off, retaining just a fragmentary portion. This was a light long gun for field use. The surface still shows traces of original minmium (red lead) paint, so this item was originally all red instead of black and rusty like today. Overall length, as fragmented, 30 cm, bore 24 mm. Best, Michael Attached Images

10th October 2014, 09:47 PM	#6
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Shame on me - I have to admit that I did not notice my friend Marcus's post - thank you so much, Alexender, my Russian friend, for pointing it out to me. Marcus, those illustrations are really great. If it were not for your effort, and spending many hours searching the web for such important sources, all of us students of weaponry would be far less enlightened ... Also, your young eyes are much better than mine. Anyway - without your hint, I would have overlooked that delicate long and flat igniting action hovering tightly above the surface of the barrel ... Actually, that wormlike tinderholder seems to be spring loaded, or, as Alexender has suggested, be nothing but a leaf spring moved manually. Alexender, I am convinced that your thinking, as always, is logical and correct. I cannot imagine any other way how this action might possibly work. With my very best wishes to Alexender and Marcus. Michl/Michael . Last edited by fernando; 11th October 2014 at 12:50 PM.

25th March 2012, 11:01 PM	#2
Spiridonov Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Russia, Leningrad Posts: 355	Great find, Michael!

26th March 2012, 12:01 AM	#3
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Thank you, Alexender, Btw, as my most experienced competency mate on this subject : do you think my dating / age determination is correct? Best, Michael

22nd September 2014, 10:29 AM	#4
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 525	That second one reminds me of these tiller guns in this manuscript: Martin le Franc (c. 1410 – 1461): Le Champion des Dames. Flandres 1442. Bibliothèque royale de Belgique, Bruxelles 9466, Fol. 4r. Found on Pinterest. The tiller guns depicted here seem to have an ignition mechanism integrated with it?