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#1 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7
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Hi,
I'm Tom from England and I have had an interest in old military equipment for a while. With that being the case friends are always giving me bits and pieces for my collection. Recently a friend gave me a dagger and it is difficult to find details about it or even find something similar online. I was wondering if there is anybody that could help me with some information about it? I have read some of the posts of this forum and people seem very knowledgable. What i'm really looking to find out is: *What region is it from? *How old is might be? *It has a wooden scabbard, is the metal silver? *The blade does not have a ridge on it, it is flat but looks as if it's been well sharpened. Maybe the ridge has been sharpened off? *I have no idea of what the handle is made of but it does not look/feel like wood? Also do you think there are some silver pieces missing from the handle as it looks like have broken off. Many Thanks for your help in advance, Tom |
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#2 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: OKLAHOMA, USA
Posts: 3,138
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WELCOME TO THE FORUMS TOM. WE WILL NEED PICTURES AND MEASURMENTS OF THE DAGGER TO BE ABLE TO MAKE CONSTRUCTIVE COMMENTS. I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ANY PSYCIC MEMBERS BUT I COULD BE WRONG.
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#3 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
Posts: 4,408
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Salaams Vandoo...~ come on wheres your sense of adventure? ![]() ![]() Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. |
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#4 |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 385
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Welcome aboard tonil. And the answer is...
![]() Last edited by trenchwarfare; 5th September 2013 at 10:19 PM. |
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#5 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,167
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please pardon the attempts at humour by some. it's part of the initiation for 1st time posters. taking the mick is a time honour british tradition, passed on to other nations. (p.s. - adding a location to your user profile is also useful)
you might want to refer to This FAQ as i am an american, i shall be completely serious however. i am psychic (or is that psychotic?), i forget what my psychiatrist defined it as. anyway, the condition has to do with a love of sharp pointy things. i have a vision. it is definitely an old pre-2014 thingamabob. is a specialised form of a thingy, also sometimes called a wotsit, but more properly a watchamacallit. if it has a doohicky attached to the base of the rabbernacker with a silver moebius nut, it will be worth a lot of money (we do NOT discuss numerical amounts here in public), humongous comes to mind tho. the silver wooden scabbard is likely made from silverwood, a rare tree that excretes a sap made out of raw .999 (with birmingham proof marks) silver amalgam that hardens into decorative patterns. the decorations vary in quality and quantity depending on the age of the silverwood tree. sometimes also used on grips, it has a tendency to fall off in coin shaped patches, exposing the underlying wood. the patches are used as currency by the locals. usually to buy edible moebius nuts which are slightly addictive. dimensions, weights, colour photos of the unsheathed item and scabbard all will help in further evaluation, closeups of markings also are helpful. do not confuse the moebius nut with the more common knife nut. moebius nut (left), followed by a knife nut(right): : (tfel) tun suibeom yb dewollof (thgir) tun efink eb lliw taht israf/cibara ni ro Last edited by kronckew; 6th September 2013 at 07:38 AM. |
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#6 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7
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Apologies for the lack of photos in my first post I didn't see the specifications for photos so I was trying to add them in a resolution that is not supported.
Fingers crossed with this second attempt will be more successful... |
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#7 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,773
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Looks to me like an Iraqi Marsh Arab dagger. A nice older one. I do not think the scabbard metal is silver.
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#8 |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 2,731
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Not a Marsh Dagger IMHO. The top of the hilt is all wrong for that. Looks more like a Kurdish dagger with worn shoulders. The scabbard etc could well be silver. The easy way to check, is to see if the metal is magnetic. If it is not, then it is likely silver of some undetermined quality.
Stu |
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#9 |
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,217
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Or brass with a silver wash ?
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#10 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 2,731
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#11 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,209
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Yes i'm with Khanjar. Kurdish dagger. I love it.
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#12 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7
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thank you all for the info so far, i have just tried the magnet test and its not magnetic so it maybe silver ?. i have some measurements if this would help, they are 9 cm blade, overall measurement from tip of blade to end of handle is about 35cm. does anyone have any idea of the age. it looks old and worn, but i have no idea [being a real novice at this] i have looks at 100s of photos and have not been able to come up with a dagger that looks the same as this. would i be right in thinking that each dagger is different and there are no two the same ?. thanks again tom
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#13 |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 2,731
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http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...kurdish+dagger
Check this post from earlier on the Forum. There are pics here of Kurdish daggers. You will see what I mean about the possible (and likely)wear on the hilt. Stu |
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#14 |
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7
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hi stu
yes this is the nearest example of the hilt that i have seen, so it looks like a kurdish dagger then. thank you for that info. would you have any idea of the age, even what century it might be. tom |
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#15 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: OKLAHOMA, USA
Posts: 3,138
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ONE THING FOR SURE IS THIS DAGGER IS NOT NEW OFF THE STORE SHELF.
![]() ![]() BRASS IS NOT MAGNETIC AND IT IS NOT UNUSUAL FOR SCABBARDS TO BE PLATED OR WASHED WITH SILVER FOR LOOKS. IF YOU SEE A BRASS COLOR SHOWING THRU THEN THAT IS LIKELY WHAT THE SCABBARD IS MADE OF. THE DECORATIVE FITTINGS COULD BE THE SAME BUT MAY BE SILVER. |
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#16 |
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7
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thank you vandoo for the info, i did clean the scabbard and decorative pieces when i was given this dagger,it was that colour silver goes when it gets dirty. i cannot see a brass colour showing through, but the tip of the scabbard is a brass colour. would you have any idea of the age, as you say it does look like it has been used and worn. many thanks tom
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#17 |
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 403
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Here, if it works, is a photograph of a Kurd taken by Wilfred Thesiger in 1950.
Regards Richard |
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#18 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: OKLAHOMA, USA
Posts: 3,138
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JUDGEING FROM THE PICTURES I WOULD GUESS A HUNDERED YEARS OR MORE IS NOT OUT OF THE QUESTION. BEARING IN MIND 100 YEARS AGO IS NOT VERY LONG OVER 100 YEARS AGO MY GRANDPARENTS WHO I KNEW INTO MY EARLY 20'S CAME OUT TO OKLAHOMA FOR THE LAND RUSH IN A HORSE AND WAGON FROM KANSAS. IN MANY PLACES IN THE WORLD PEOPLE STILL LIVE THE SAME AS THEY DID HUNDREDS OF YEARS AGO AND LITTLE HAS CHANGED LOCALLY. THEY MAY ONLY HAVE ONE DAGGER IN A LIFETIME AND PASS IT DOWN THRU THE FAMILY UNTIL IT WEARS OUT.
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#19 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,717
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all shown Kurdish daggers have a blade with middle rib while Tom's dagger hasn't this feature. ![]() Regards, Detlef |
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#20 |
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7
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hi stu and detlef,
thank you detlef that was my next question,why is it the blade is flat on this dagger. the only one that looks as if it might be flat on the post from kahnjar 1 is the one on the far left. the middle rib could not have been sharpened off somehow could it many thanks tom |
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#21 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 2,731
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I agree but then this one has a lot of wear on the hilt so it could follow that the blade has also been worn down over time, or could have been replaced. Stu |
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#22 |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Kuwait
Posts: 1,340
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they come with flat blades (have seen one with a flat wootz blade once) and multifullered ones too. So nothing out of the ordinary.
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#23 |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,717
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Thank you both for clarification!
Regards, Detlef |
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#24 |
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7
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thank you , a alnakkas,
for confirming about the flat blade, i was beginning to think the dagger was a misfit, but looking at where the end of the blade fits into the hilt it does not seem to be tampered with. sorry to ask so many questions but could anyone tell me about the hilt, maybe what its made of. many thanks tom |
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