Need help with blade mark

[ariel]

That's all I have, sorry.

Anybody knows where from and how old?

Thanks.
Ariel

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by ariel

That's all I have, sorry.

Anybody knows where from and how old?

Thanks.
Ariel

Looks like a blade from a 'nimcha' mid 19th+ with this assembly of 'cosmological' theme resembling the Schimmelbusch style marking. This is typically a comet with this grouping of stars, but a moon could be variant. It seems merchants/armorers in trade entrepots would add these kinds of markings imitating various European marks from blades.

I think Bezdek has examples of these markings for Schimmelbusch, dont have access at the moment.

These two images are of the kinds of markings placed on these hanger or saber blades typically seen on nimcha type swords of mid 19th into early 20th c. The one with crescent moon resembling the Hausa 'dukari' but with crosses of the type seen on some 'koummya' blades from Moroccan regions.

[Jerseyman]

I don't have any information I'm afraid, but I do have an archive picture of one of my talwars to hand. No stats to share unfortunately. I thought the hilt style might help with assessing time and place.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Jerseyman

I don't have any information I'm afraid, but I do have an archive picture of one of my talwars to hand. No stats to share unfortunately. I thought the hilt style might help with assessing time and place.

Nice example of northwestern India talwar, probably Rajasthan or Sind, as per the decorative element center of cross guard, the swan neck knuckle guard from Rajasthan areas. It resembles the type seen in references on Talpurs of Baluchistan, but these were widely diffused so hard to be specific. Likely late 18th early 19th.

[Jerseyman]

I suppose the question is whether we think this is a trade blade or a local blade. I'm inclined toward saying it's a local blade because of the delamination on the blade edge, but happy to be proved wrong. If it's a trade blade then I guess it's a European mark, but I'm disposed to think it's an Indian armourer's mark.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Jerseyman

I suppose the question is whether we think this is a trade blade or a local blade. I'm inclined toward saying it's a local blade because of the delamination on the blade edge, but happy to be proved wrong. If it's a trade blade then I guess it's a European mark, but I'm disposed to think it's an Indian armourer's mark.

Its quite possible its a trade blade, as these were prevalent through the Arab/Indian trade entrepots. Indian armorers as far as I have known did not use makers marks like in Europe but did use various imitations of some European markings, most prevalent of course being the 'Genoan' sickle marks.

It appears this is a variation or copy of the marks used by Schimmelbusch in Solingen, and these were in the 19th c.

[TVV]

Here are a couple of swords with similar mark, in this case nimchas from Eastern Africa. I also recall seeing this mark on saifs from Southern Yemen, but these are just outside of my main area of interest, so unfortunately do not have photos. It is possible that these blades were made in India or somewhere around the Arabian Sea as this mark seems to be found exclusively on blades from that region.

[Jerseyman]

A similar mark on a shamshir that recently went through the auction process.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Jerseyman

A similar mark on a shamshir that recently went through the auction process.

This is a Yemeni sa'if actually so technically not a shamshir, but these are simply descriptive terms as used colloquially in the arms community. It appears to be a modern hilting using much older blade, likely Solingen. This cosmological grouping as placed on the blade seems to be a well used mark by local armorers in these regions in early to mid 19th c. on these older well circulated blades.
It has been noted in a number of cases concerning swords from these areas in Arabia that considerable numbers of vintage blades were acquired from Bedouin sources in trading, many being mounted in these more modern but traditional style hilts.

It seems that the crescent and stars were used on the flag of Muhammed Ali, Ottoman ruler of Egypt c.1820, and these crescent and stars configurations were used on blades used from the Maghreb to other Ottoman regions extending of course to Yemen through the century. I have seen crosses (of the Greek type) used along with the crescent as well and it seems in similar placement and configuration, so I am wondering if perhaps this might be an Ottoman arsenal type marking, or that of a particular entrepot in this Ottoman sphere.