New member, request for info.

amiles · 23rd January 2011, 07:02 PM

Hi,

I've just inherited a keris (photos attached) from my father, who bought it in Asia in the 1960s or 70s. He travelled in Singapore, Malaya and Borneo among others, but I'm not sure where exactly it was purchased.

From looking at the site I'm guessing it comes from Java, but would appreciate any other opinions on its origin and likely age, any any other intersting points. Also, I'm not sure what to do about cleaning / maintaining it. I'm not interested in selling it, but would like to keep it looking good and stop it deteriorating as far as possible. The inner sheath appears to be made from bamboo, and was wrapped in newspaper, I think to stop the outer cover slipping. I've removed most of the paper but some remains stuck to the wood. The blade seems very dark, and there is some rust.

Any suggestions appreciated.

Thanks,

Andy

Rick · 23rd January 2011, 08:46 PM

Hi Andy,

Welcome to the Forum .

Yes, your keris appears to be of Javanese origin .
I might suggest the Jogyakarta region judging from the style of hilt .
The outer metal sleeve is called a Pendok; and I believe the decoration on it is called the Semen motif .
The blade appears genuinely old .
I would suggest a bit of oil on the blade for now .
You may want to unmount the blade and give it a soak in Pineapple juice first to break up and remove the surface rust before oiling .

Repairs to these old scabbards are not that unusual to find; the newspaper was probably used to ensure a good fit for the pendok .
The wood grain looks beautiful .

Rick

kai · 24th January 2011, 10:37 AM

Hello Andy,

Here's another recent thread of interest:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13168

Bamboo (or rattan?) is not typically used AFAIK. I guess, this got restored before your father bought it. Since the pendok is covering it, there's probably little reason to change the current configuration. If you don't have high humidity, the wood will certainly benefit from a good wood oil.

The blade seems to be of lesser quality but I've been wrong before. I hope the specialists on keris Jawa will join in with suggestions...

Regards,
Kai

amiles · 24th January 2011, 10:42 AM

Thanks Rick, that's good to know. The wood grain is lovely isn't it - I remember being absolutely fascinated by this keris when I was a child. It's a shame I never asked my father more about it.

When you say old, are you able to have any guess as to a possible range? I realise it's difficult from a photo.

Thanks for the advice re the blade - I'm nervous about demounting the blade but have read elsewhere about the possibility of suspending the whole thing in pineapple juice, keeping the hilt free, or wrapping juice soaked paper around it.

Thanks again,

Andy

Rick · 24th January 2011, 05:30 PM

Hi Andy,

I would be concerned about the liquid migrating up under the hilt if you were to leave it on no matter how you applied it; that would not be a good thing .
As Kai has suggested and pointed you toward; there are many threads here on the subject .

The final decision is of course your's .

Rick

Sajen · 24th January 2011, 05:53 PM

Hello Andy,

welcome to the forum. There are maybe some things to add. The dress (sarung) of your keris is like Rick write before from Yogya and from good quality. Sheath form is called brangah. The mendak don't fit with this ensemble but is ok. The blade isn't original to the sheath since the mouth was made smaller for a better fit. The gonjo seems to my eyes not the original one.

Regards,

Detlef

David · 24th January 2011, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amiles

Thanks for the advice re the blade - I'm nervous about demounting the blade but have read elsewhere about the possibility of suspending the whole thing in pineapple juice, keeping the hilt free, or wrapping juice soaked paper around it.

I also wouldn't recommend that you soak without removing the blade. Is there any play or spin when you try to turn the hilt?

VANDOO · 24th January 2011, 11:41 PM

WELCOME TO THE FORUM

THE KERIS HANDLE IS TRADITIONALLY LEFT LOOSE WITH PERHAPS A CORD WRAPPED AROUND THE PESKI (TANG) THAT GOES INTO THE HANDLE TO SECURE IT. TRADITIONALY IT IS NOT GLUED, NAILED OR SCREWED ON SO IF IT HAS NOT BEEN GLUED BY SOMEONE THE HANDLE SHOULD BE EASY TO REMOVE AND RE ATTACH AFTER CLEANING THE BLADE. AS SUGESTED JUST TWIST IT BACK AND FORTH AND SEE IF IT LOSENS UP AND WILL COME OFF. GOOD LUCK

amiles · 25th January 2011, 03:26 PM

Thanks for all your suggestions.

Interesting that the sheath opening has been made smaller - I hadn't noticed that before.

Feeling more confident from your suggestions I gave the hilt a tweak this morning and it came off easily enough. The blade is now soaking in pineapple juice. I'll post another picture of the blade once it's clean, in case anything more is clear then.

Thanks again,

Andy

GIO · 25th January 2011, 07:18 PM

It is my opinion too that the hilt must be removed before cleaning the blade.
I always clean also the peksi (tang) to prevent an over - rusting, and remove the gangia to eliminate rust which forms between the gangia and the upper part of the blade. At the end I apply, on the tang only, an anti-rust varnish.
To conclude, considering the condition of the blade, I am afraid the pinapple juce will not do so much (but I never tried this method) I normally use either elecrolitic cleaning or bio-deruster. In some cases, but with great care, also a solution of phosforic acid.

David · 25th January 2011, 09:51 PM

I am afraid i disargee Gio. Pineapple juice will clean this keris just fine. Perhaps not as fast as your methods, but it is a very effective slow acting acid. This blade does not seem to be so far gone as you seem to think.

A. G. Maisey · 26th January 2011, 03:44 AM

I first used pineapple juice to clean a keris blade in about 1955.

I used it because I had read that coconut water should be used to remove rust from a keris blade, and I could not get coconut water.

Since 1955 I've done a few blades with pineapple juice, and I consider it to be better than coconut water, which I have also used.

I agree that there are many possible ways in which to remove rust from a keris blade, however, pineapple juice does work very well.

amiles · 29th January 2011, 03:28 PM

I've now cleaned and oiled the blade, which has made a huge difference (see photos). This took about three days of soaking in pineapple juice, with occasional brushing with a tooth brush and the use of a dental pick to carefully remove some of the bigger bits of rust. I'm so pleased I did it - the blade looks so much better, so thanks for all your advice.

Is anyone able to hazard a guess as to it's age?

Many thanks,

Andy

David · 29th January 2011, 06:12 PM

I don't usually hazard guesses on age, but i feel confident that your blade is an old one. Now that it is cleaned i think i will agree with Sajen that perhaps the gonjo is a later replacement. The level of erosion and look if the iron seems completely different from the blade itself.

kulbuntet · 30th January 2011, 05:04 AM

Im with David and Sajen.. Gonjo is replaced, but afther some more cleaning and a waragnan wash...stil nice piece! I like the medak, dont see them often anny more. Regards

amiles · 1st February 2011, 02:27 PM

Thanks again for all your help and suggestions.

Andy

23rd January 2011, 07:02 PM	#1
amiles Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: London Posts: 5	New member, request for info. Hi, I've just inherited a keris (photos attached) from my father, who bought it in Asia in the 1960s or 70s. He travelled in Singapore, Malaya and Borneo among others, but I'm not sure where exactly it was purchased. From looking at the site I'm guessing it comes from Java, but would appreciate any other opinions on its origin and likely age, any any other intersting points. Also, I'm not sure what to do about cleaning / maintaining it. I'm not interested in selling it, but would like to keep it looking good and stop it deteriorating as far as possible. The inner sheath appears to be made from bamboo, and was wrapped in newspaper, I think to stop the outer cover slipping. I've removed most of the paper but some remains stuck to the wood. The blade seems very dark, and there is some rust. Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks, Andy Attached Images

29th January 2011, 03:28 PM	#13
amiles Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: London Posts: 5	I've now cleaned and oiled the blade, which has made a huge difference (see photos). This took about three days of soaking in pineapple juice, with occasional brushing with a tooth brush and the use of a dental pick to carefully remove some of the bigger bits of rust. I'm so pleased I did it - the blade looks so much better, so thanks for all your advice. Is anyone able to hazard a guess as to it's age? Many thanks, Andy Attached Images

23rd January 2011, 08:46 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Hi Andy, Welcome to the Forum . Yes, your keris appears to be of Javanese origin . I might suggest the Jogyakarta region judging from the style of hilt . The outer metal sleeve is called a Pendok; and I believe the decoration on it is called the Semen motif . The blade appears genuinely old . I would suggest a bit of oil on the blade for now . You may want to unmount the blade and give it a soak in Pineapple juice first to break up and remove the surface rust before oiling . Repairs to these old scabbards are not that unusual to find; the newspaper was probably used to ensure a good fit for the pendok . The wood grain looks beautiful . Rick

24th January 2011, 10:37 AM	#3
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Andy, Here's another recent thread of interest: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13168 Bamboo (or rattan?) is not typically used AFAIK. I guess, this got restored before your father bought it. Since the pendok is covering it, there's probably little reason to change the current configuration. If you don't have high humidity, the wood will certainly benefit from a good wood oil. The blade seems to be of lesser quality but I've been wrong before. I hope the specialists on keris Jawa will join in with suggestions... Regards, Kai

24th January 2011, 10:42 AM	#4
amiles Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: London Posts: 5	Thanks Rick, that's good to know. The wood grain is lovely isn't it - I remember being absolutely fascinated by this keris when I was a child. It's a shame I never asked my father more about it. When you say old, are you able to have any guess as to a possible range? I realise it's difficult from a photo. Thanks for the advice re the blade - I'm nervous about demounting the blade but have read elsewhere about the possibility of suspending the whole thing in pineapple juice, keeping the hilt free, or wrapping juice soaked paper around it. Thanks again, Andy

24th January 2011, 05:30 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Hi Andy, I would be concerned about the liquid migrating up under the hilt if you were to leave it on no matter how you applied it; that would not be a good thing . As Kai has suggested and pointed you toward; there are many threads here on the subject . The final decision is of course your's . Rick

24th January 2011, 05:53 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Hello Andy, welcome to the forum. There are maybe some things to add. The dress (sarung) of your keris is like Rick write before from Yogya and from good quality. Sheath form is called brangah. The mendak don't fit with this ensemble but is ok. The blade isn't original to the sheath since the mouth was made smaller for a better fit. The gonjo seems to my eyes not the original one. Regards, Detlef

24th January 2011, 11:41 PM	#8
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	WELCOME TO THE FORUM THE KERIS HANDLE IS TRADITIONALLY LEFT LOOSE WITH PERHAPS A CORD WRAPPED AROUND THE PESKI (TANG) THAT GOES INTO THE HANDLE TO SECURE IT. TRADITIONALY IT IS NOT GLUED, NAILED OR SCREWED ON SO IF IT HAS NOT BEEN GLUED BY SOMEONE THE HANDLE SHOULD BE EASY TO REMOVE AND RE ATTACH AFTER CLEANING THE BLADE. AS SUGESTED JUST TWIST IT BACK AND FORTH AND SEE IF IT LOSENS UP AND WILL COME OFF. GOOD LUCK

25th January 2011, 03:26 PM	#9
amiles Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: London Posts: 5	Thanks for all your suggestions. Interesting that the sheath opening has been made smaller - I hadn't noticed that before. Feeling more confident from your suggestions I gave the hilt a tweak this morning and it came off easily enough. The blade is now soaking in pineapple juice. I'll post another picture of the blade once it's clean, in case anything more is clear then. Thanks again, Andy

25th January 2011, 07:18 PM	#10
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 313	It is my opinion too that the hilt must be removed before cleaning the blade. I always clean also the peksi (tang) to prevent an over - rusting, and remove the gangia to eliminate rust which forms between the gangia and the upper part of the blade. At the end I apply, on the tang only, an anti-rust varnish. To conclude, considering the condition of the blade, I am afraid the pinapple juce will not do so much (but I never tried this method) I normally use either elecrolitic cleaning or bio-deruster. In some cases, but with great care, also a solution of phosforic acid.

25th January 2011, 09:51 PM	#11
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,127	I am afraid i disargee Gio. Pineapple juice will clean this keris just fine. Perhaps not as fast as your methods, but it is a very effective slow acting acid. This blade does not seem to be so far gone as you seem to think.

26th January 2011, 03:44 AM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,897	I first used pineapple juice to clean a keris blade in about 1955. I used it because I had read that coconut water should be used to remove rust from a keris blade, and I could not get coconut water. Since 1955 I've done a few blades with pineapple juice, and I consider it to be better than coconut water, which I have also used. I agree that there are many possible ways in which to remove rust from a keris blade, however, pineapple juice does work very well.

29th January 2011, 06:12 PM	#14
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,127	I don't usually hazard guesses on age, but i feel confident that your blade is an old one. Now that it is cleaned i think i will agree with Sajen that perhaps the gonjo is a later replacement. The level of erosion and look if the iron seems completely different from the blade itself.

30th January 2011, 05:04 AM	#15
kulbuntet Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands Posts: 159	Im with David and Sajen.. Gonjo is replaced, but afther some more cleaning and a waragnan wash...stil nice piece! I like the medak, dont see them often anny more. Regards

1st February 2011, 02:27 PM	#16
amiles Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: London Posts: 5	Thanks again for all your help and suggestions. Andy