Sumatra keris with ivory parts

[Paul B.]

Got a nice Sumatra keris recently and the handle shows details which I have never come across. There are 2 perfect round holes, one artifically made underneath for matching the pesi. From the lower part of the back there is a an ivory cover (same age). This opening is the nerve running in line with the full length of the handle.
Any clues about the type of ivory? The honey colour is original?

[David]

Detailed photos of other areas of the hilt would help identify the type of ivory. I thins point i am inclined to say marine ivory, possibly a whale's tooth.

[Paul B.]

More pics will tell you. It has light shades. Marine ivory was my first guess also but what kind of is it?
Wonder why there is a straight (repaired) line in the front and back. Seems more like a lack of material than a broken part. A closer look also tells me that the structure does not continue in the patched parts.

[David]

Well, you have grain, but it does not look like the Schreger pattern we find in elephant ivory, so i am still inclined towards marine ivory. It does not display characteristics of hippo and i'm not sure you will find pieces this large to work fro dugong. So i would assume probably whale tooth.

[Paul B.]

Agree, it isn't elephant and belief it is some kind of marine ivory. Could sperm whale be an option?
The handle is heavy and big (length about 11 cm).

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Paul B.

Could sperm whale be an option?
The handle is heavy and big (length about 11 cm).

Yes Paul, I think that it's sperm whale. The wrongko seems to be from elephant ivory and I agree that the put on pieces are made by lack of material.

Regards,
Detlef

PS: very nice Minangkabau keris. Can we see the blade?

[Paul B.]

My impression is that both materials are alike but I could be mistaken.
Here are a few shots more.
Quite a big Minang keris, overall 47 cm.
Indeed a typical Burung shaped handle from the Minangkabau highlands.

[David]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Yes Paul, I think that it's sperm whale. The wrongko seems to be from elephant ivory and I agree that the put on pieces are made by lack of material.

Regards,
Detlef

PS: very nice Minangkabau keris. Can we see the blade?

I'm not convinced the wrongko is elephant ivory. It has a grain, but those are not Schreger patterns as far as i can see.
Paul, this is a very beautiful keris over all.

[Paul B.]

Agree, I vote for sperm whale (both parts).
The warangka has a similar bright 'hot spot' underneath the vertical carving as the handle does.

I wonder to whom this keris have belonged referring to dress and size.

[Paul B.]

Another pic.

[Paul B.]

Any clues or thoughts?
What about age?

[Paul B.]

Similar pieces among collections ? Would love to see.

[Jean]

A smaller Minang keris with a similar hilt made from whale tooth, and another Minang keris with a similar scabbard.
I am not sure that your blade is of Minang origin.
Regards

[David]

Originally Posted by Paul B.

Similar pieces among collections ? Would love to see.

Minang keris have eluded my collection for some time now. I would love to eventually add a good, representative example.

[kai]

Hello David,

Minang keris have eluded my collection for some time now. I would love to eventually add a good, representative example.

You're surely out of luck here: There is no representative Minang example.

Because there are several, if not many very distinct local styles...

Regards,
Kai

[shadejoy]

Originally Posted by Jean

A smaller Minang keris with a similar hilt made from whale tooth, and another Minang keris with a similar scabbard.
I am not sure that your blade is of Minang origin.
Regards

@Jean, your first picture ..is that Minang's interpretation of Naga on the Keris' gandik, what dapur is it? Interesting piece. Please tell us more about the Keris.

[David]

Originally Posted by kai

Hello David,


You're surely out of luck here: There is no representative Minang example.

Because there are several, if not many very distinct local styles...

Regards,
Kai

Kai, i said i was looking for A representative example of a Minang keris, not THE representative example. I currently have NO example of any kind of Minang keris, so surely ANY good Minang keris would be a good representation example of that particular style.
PM me if you are letting something go.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by kai

Hello David,


You're surely out of luck here: There is no representative Minang example.

Because there are several, if not many very distinct local styles...

Regards,
Kai

The 2 specimens which I have shown on the previous pics are representative of two main types of Minang krisses (short blade with 3 luks or straight bahari blade) but there are some variations indeed. The book "Keris Minangkabau" includes many other types of supposedly Minangkabau krisses but which are mixed pieces IMO....

[Jean]

Originally Posted by shadejoy

@Jean, your first picture ..is that Minang's interpretation of Naga on the Keris' gandik, what dapur is it? Interesting piece. Please tell us more about the Keris.

Yes, this is a Minang interpretation of a naga blade, I bought this piece from the famous keris collector & expert Martin Kerner, I guess that the whole piece is about 50 years old or more. This dapur with 3 luk is typically Minang (see pic) but this one including a naga is rare. The pendok (silver oversheath) with a flared or rounded buntut (tip) is also typical of Minang krisses.
Regards

[shadejoy]

Originally Posted by Jean

Yes, this is a Minang interpretation of a naga blade, I bought this piece from the famous keris collector & expert Martin Kerner, I guess that the whole piece is about 50 years old or more. This dapur with 3 luk is typically Minang (see pic) but this one including a naga is rare. The pendok (silver oversheath) with a flared or rounded buntut (tip) is also typical of Minang krisses.
Regards

It might be the lighting, but the wilah and ganja seem to have different contrast.
Yes, this is a Minang interpretation of a naga blade..
The first thing came to mind was Leviathan when I saw the pic for some reason. But then I questioned myself if Indonesia had such mythology. Regardless, it is appealing!

Thanks for sharing!

[Jean]

Originally Posted by shadejoy

It might be the lighting, but the wilah and ganja seem to have different contrast.

Yeah, the ganja is covered by a silver sheet (on the bottom face and part of the 2 sides) as is commonly used in high-end Minang krisses. You can also notice the specific style of the greneng on the wadidang side of these 3 blades.

[kai]

Hello Paul,

Sorry for joining the party late and even getting distracted before finalizing this response!

Any clues or thoughts?
What about age?

This ensemble leaves me a bit uneasy.

The hilt does seem to have good age, good quality carving, might well be antique IMHO.

The blade is imported as many blades of keris Minang are.

The pendokok is of a more modern style.

The crosspiece bugs me: Even if possibly stained, it seems to have genuine age. On the other hand, I can't see it as a likely repair attempt; as an original construction it also seems more than odd, especially considering genuine traditional craftsmanship...

I believe the gandar and the silverwork might be a later replacement.

I'd need to examine this keris personally to substantiate any of these assumptions though.

Regards,
Kai

[Paul B.]

Thanks. I do think both handle and scabbard are old. Looks pretty black and dusty from the inside. Notice the wide opening, it indicates that it must have had a blade with a wide ganja (in case the existing blade isn't the first one).
From the back we see that the ivory patch to the right is not in line with the warangka material. So I do not belief it is a broken part.
The pendokok looks old from the inside too. I gave it a polish which might give it a new impression.
The gandar is a replacement but not surprisingly. Wood is deteriorating soon in a tropical environment.


What about this blade? Like Jean's piece it has a silverfoil covered ganja. Does seem to have Malay features to me. Slightly curved. It comes with a Minang dress.

[Paul B.]

New suggestions are welcome concerning this keris.

[Jean]

The selut is Minang but the hilt, blade, and scabbard/ pendok rather look Bugis Riau or Peninsular to me
Other opinions are welcome

[Paul B.]

Same observations. Maybe the dress is additional, even if the ganja with silverfoil usually sticks out to demonstrate wealth. Anyway, to me still puzzling.

[Paul B.]

Meanwhile I know that handle and pendokok have been exchanged by the former owner. Preferably change it with an appropriate pendokok and a more upright handle? What handle would come into your mind Jean?

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Paul B.

Meanwhile I know that handle and pendokok have been exchanged by the former owner. Preferably change it with an appropriate pendokok and a more upright handle? What handle would come into your mind Jean?

I would not change anything as the origin of the keris is uncertain and the various parts match reasonably well, although the hilt is a bit oversized as compared to the sampir.
However if you prefer, you may fit a smaller East Sumatra pangulu hilt or anak ayam/ pipi teleng hilt, see pics.

[Wijaya34]

Originally Posted by Paul B.

New suggestions are welcome concerning this keris.

It looks like a 'rejang lebong' keris to me. These type of kerises are popular in the Bengkulu region of sumatra.

[Gavin Nugent]

I don't feel this is anything but Elephant ivory where the sampir is concerned... looking at the hulu, I suspect the same source.

I've a much bigger Sundang sampir with the same external recess seen on the one face. Unlike this example, it is a single piece. This led me to some deeper study some time ago, simply because of the size, I could see no other option other than tusk. Digging in to Sperm whale teeth, the largest sizes and the hollow underside just didn't add up.

Here are some images and a good article from which one of the images was drawn from for this thread.

Gavin

Linky; https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...2020+tusks.pdf