Betel nut visions

Marcus · 30th March 2015, 02:20 PM

Here are some pictures of my Mandau, including close ups of the carved hilt. The carvings make me curious about the psychoactive properties of arecoline, found in the betel nuts commonly used by the South Seas tribes.

I also include one picture comparing the Mandau to a Kampilan. Clearly, the later is the more substantial weapon. I would welcome any comments on the comparison of these two weapons and their respective significance in Dayak cultures.

Sajen · 30th March 2015, 04:21 PM

Hello Marcus,
two very nice swords.

I let it to the experts to comment about the mandau but the hilt carving is very nice.

Be sure that there is no psychoactive property in the betel nut, I've used the nut several times, it's more like a strong coffee.

Regards,
Detlef

Marcus · 30th March 2015, 04:48 PM

I assume you did something to alkalize the preparation. Arecoline is a weak base and will be charged at normal pH, so that, like the cocaine in coca leaves, it will be poorly absorbed unless an effort is made to change the pH

The molecule's structure makes it likely to work on acetylcholine receptors of which there are two types, muscarinic and nicotinic. It is believed to be a partial activator of muscarinic receptors, so that might have some mild hallucinogenic effects similar to Amanita muscaria. It's potential activity on nicotinic receptors has not been well studied, although its anthelmintic properties suggest that it may stimulate invertebrate nicotine receptors. For some unknown reason I do have a bottle of arecoline in the lab, although we have no record of having done experiments with it previously. We will go ahead and test it on a couple of human nicotine receptor subtypes probably later today (http://papke.med.ufl.edu/index.html).

Sajen · 30th March 2015, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus

I assume you did something to alkalize the preparation.

You're correct, like usual I've used it with chalk. In India and Indonesia.

VANDOO · 30th March 2015, 05:14 PM

I HAVE SHARED BETEL NUT WITH TRIBAL PEOPLE SEVERAL TIMES AND FELT NO STRANGE EFFECTS. IT MAY BE MILDLY ADDICTIVE LIKE COFFEE AND TEA BUT NOTHING AS STRONG AS COFFEE OR NICOTINE. IT IS PREPARED WITH LIME A WHITE POWDER MADE BY BURNING CORAL OR SHELLS? AND USUALLY 1/2 OF A BETEL NUT WRAPPED IN SOME SORT OF LEAF. IF NO LIME IS USED YOUR SPIT IS CLEAR BUT ADD THE LIME AND THE SPITTLE TURNS RED WHICH IS MANLY AND PROPER.

THE KAVA KAVA DRINK PREPARED IN FIJI AND OTHER PLACES IS ANOTHER MILD RELAXING DRUG WITH NO STRONG ADDICTION. GOOD LUCK ON YOUR EXPERIMENTS JUST DON'T SPIT IN TNE FLOOR. THE RED SPLOTCHES ALL OVER THE GROUND IN AREAS TELLS YOU WHERE THE NUT IS USED A LOT.

Sajen · 30th March 2015, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

THE RED SPLOTCHES ALL OVER THE GROUND IN AREAS TELLS YOU WHERE THE NUT IS USED A LOT.

I have been to places in India where all walls has been red in a high of one to one and half meter.

I think that this is one reason why betel chewing is forbidden in some Asian countries now.

Marcus · 30th March 2015, 09:03 PM

Our experiments confirm that it has significant activity on an important subtype of human nicotine receptor, but probably not the subtypes most likely associated with nicotine addiction.

Marcus · 31st March 2015, 01:33 PM

Another reason is that there is growing appreciation for the fact that it causes oral cancers.

Battara · 1st April 2015, 12:55 AM

Visions and dreams are important to these peoples as well as the rest of the region. Perhaps the source of the carvings as well as the religions there.

I love the asos on the hilt and the silver inlay on the blade. Yours is the type I eventually want.

DaveA · 1st April 2015, 04:10 PM

One thing I really appreciate about this forum is the expertise, and I am not surprised to see that it extends far beyond ethnographic weapons. How astonishing to learn that betal nut may have hallucinogenic effects similar to the fly agaric, a "poisonous" mushroom! The fly agaric is ingested in many locales around the world.

Now I'm wondering about the relationship between ritual/social use of psychoactive substances and some of the more fantastical designs we have seen on some weapons, such as the one posted in this thread. It would be interesting, even astonishing, to find common designs across disparate cultures that might be more related to brain chemistry than cross-cultural pollination! Are there examples of (presently) unexplained commonalities in designs among widely disparate cultures?

Dave A.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus

I assume you did something to alkalize the preparation. Arecoline is a weak base and will be charged at normal pH, so that, like the cocaine in coca leaves, it will be poorly absorbed unless an effort is made to change the pH

The molecule's structure makes it likely to work on acetylcholine receptors of which there are two types, muscarinic and nicotinic. It is believed to be a partial activator of muscarinic receptors, so that might have some mild hallucinogenic effects similar to Amanita muscaria. It's potential activity on nicotinic receptors has not been well studied, although its anthelmintic properties suggest that it may stimulate invertebrate nicotine receptors. For some unknown reason I do have a bottle of arecoline in the lab, although we have no record of having done experiments with it previously. We will go ahead and test it on a couple of human nicotine receptor subtypes probably later today (http://papke.med.ufl.edu/index.html).

Marcus · 2nd April 2015, 03:09 AM

My dream is to see that image on the cover of Science magazine.

30th March 2015, 02:20 PM	#1
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	Betel nut visions Here are some pictures of my Mandau, including close ups of the carved hilt. The carvings make me curious about the psychoactive properties of arecoline, found in the betel nuts commonly used by the South Seas tribes. I also include one picture comparing the Mandau to a Kampilan. Clearly, the later is the more substantial weapon. I would welcome any comments on the comparison of these two weapons and their respective significance in Dayak cultures. Attached Images

30th March 2015, 04:48 PM	#3
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	drug activity I assume you did something to alkalize the preparation. Arecoline is a weak base and will be charged at normal pH, so that, like the cocaine in coca leaves, it will be poorly absorbed unless an effort is made to change the pH The molecule's structure makes it likely to work on acetylcholine receptors of which there are two types, muscarinic and nicotinic. It is believed to be a partial activator of muscarinic receptors, so that might have some mild hallucinogenic effects similar to Amanita muscaria. It's potential activity on nicotinic receptors has not been well studied, although its anthelmintic properties suggest that it may stimulate invertebrate nicotine receptors. For some unknown reason I do have a bottle of arecoline in the lab, although we have no record of having done experiments with it previously. We will go ahead and test it on a couple of human nicotine receptor subtypes probably later today (http://papke.med.ufl.edu/index.html).

30th March 2015, 09:03 PM	#7
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	Arecoline activity Our experiments confirm that it has significant activity on an important subtype of human nicotine receptor, but probably not the subtypes most likely associated with nicotine addiction.

31st March 2015, 01:33 PM	#8
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	"one reason why betel chewing is forbidden" Another reason is that there is growing appreciation for the fact that it causes oral cancers.

2nd April 2015, 03:09 AM	#11
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	Mandau carving My dream is to see that image on the cover of Science magazine.

30th March 2015, 04:21 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,770	Hello Marcus, two very nice swords. I let it to the experts to comment about the mandau but the hilt carving is very nice. Be sure that there is no psychoactive property in the betel nut, I've used the nut several times, it's more like a strong coffee. Regards, Detlef

30th March 2015, 05:14 PM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I HAVE SHARED BETEL NUT WITH TRIBAL PEOPLE SEVERAL TIMES AND FELT NO STRANGE EFFECTS. IT MAY BE MILDLY ADDICTIVE LIKE COFFEE AND TEA BUT NOTHING AS STRONG AS COFFEE OR NICOTINE. IT IS PREPARED WITH LIME A WHITE POWDER MADE BY BURNING CORAL OR SHELLS? AND USUALLY 1/2 OF A BETEL NUT WRAPPED IN SOME SORT OF LEAF. IF NO LIME IS USED YOUR SPIT IS CLEAR BUT ADD THE LIME AND THE SPITTLE TURNS RED WHICH IS MANLY AND PROPER. THE KAVA KAVA DRINK PREPARED IN FIJI AND OTHER PLACES IS ANOTHER MILD RELAXING DRUG WITH NO STRONG ADDICTION. GOOD LUCK ON YOUR EXPERIMENTS JUST DON'T SPIT IN TNE FLOOR. THE RED SPLOTCHES ALL OVER THE GROUND IN AREAS TELLS YOU WHERE THE NUT IS USED A LOT.

1st April 2015, 12:55 AM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Visions and dreams are important to these peoples as well as the rest of the region. Perhaps the source of the carvings as well as the religions there. I love the asos on the hilt and the silver inlay on the blade. Yours is the type I eventually want.