Item for comments

[delor]

Hello,

I recently received a post with this item, and I'd like to know what you think of it.
The handle looks like a morocco khoumiya but the blade is quite unusual (for me). Maybe turkish / ottoman or more indian style ??

Thanks,
Bernard

[tom hyle]

Interesting. Is the handle metal-covered?

[delor]

It's metal..
Here are some closeups.
Any ideas ?

[Yannis]

I think it is a version of Marocan koummya. We have discuss something similar recently.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96

[Conogre]

The hilt appears to be pewter and cast onto the blade, while the style is something that I've not seen before, both in the blade shape and the pommel treatment.
The floral pattern to the icizing in the hilt, to me, seems to have an Indian or SE Asian flair to it, with the 2nd area bringing to mind Thailand.
My suggestion is that it's a paper knife/letter opener or else specialty knife for some sort of soft food particualrly because I don't see any signs of a taper from the spine to the edge, which makes me ask instead of assuming: is the blade flat or does it taper from the spine to a thinner edge?
Likewise, is it sharp or only semi sharp?
After looking at it again, the script before the design on the blade and the pommel shape made me think that I'd better not rule out the perrenial favorite for unusual pieces, Morocco, as the end does bear a distinct similarity to the Jambiyas with the wide, Napoleonic hat flavor.

Mike

[Tim Simmons]

I tend to agree with Yannis.I have never seen pewter used on SE Asian weapons,but I do not really Know much about them.Tim

[tom hyle]

I think the hilt is embossed/repouseed sheet iron, with perhaps traces of old silvering. The edge is visibly sharp with a humped bevel in the edge-on photo. My leaning at the moment is Persian 19thc Qajar revival thingy. Is that not writing on the blade?

[Andrew]

That certainly looks like Arabic script on the blade to me, Tom. The portion closest to the tip, anyway.

Tim, I'm not certain as to the prevalence of pewter use in SEA, but I have a Thai darb with pewter mounts.

[Jim McDougall]

I would definitely concur that this intriguing item would most likely have been found in a bazaar somewhere in 20th c. North Africa, probably Morocco. While entirely decorative, it reflects a number of influences, mostly Ottoman.
The 'koummya' type pommel, which is believed actually to have evolved from the Italian 'cinqueda' from the early trade of Venice into North African ports.
The recurved blade reflects yataghan influence, the upturned point -Algerian littoral- and the profiled back the Ottoman 'kilic'. The pronounced block at the forte corresponds with similar design on some Berber scabbards, on those curious Berber sabres with profiled blade point.

Best regards,
Jim

[Conogre]

By the way, the one comment I didn't make before?
Very nice find and I LIKE it!!!!
Well done!
Mike

[Mans]

I don't know anything about this piece.
But I can read the arabic scipt in this blade..., "MARAKAS" , perhaps like Marrocco or Marakesh ?

Good steel and very nice pice, I think.

Regards,
Mans.

[tom hyle]

khoumiya pommels strike me as being related to ancient and medieval "eared" daggers and swords.
Examining the dents on the handle will tell you the material is a thin sheet backed with something mushable (pitch? soft wood?), and that it is a harder metal than pewter, which would likely be quite scarred from whatever caused such dents.

[delor]

Hello Mike,

the spine goes from 3mm width to 0.3 mm at the point, with a thinner edge, and it is sharp. Total length 39.5 cm, blade length 21 cm.

I'm glad to see that this "dagger" looks quite unusual for you too ! By the way thanks a lot to everyone, this is a very interesting discussion !

Regards,
Bernard

[Conogre]

This last bit of information probably takes it out of the paper knife/letter opener category then, to the point that I'm beginning to think that you have a very nice and unusual jambya there, although I still think it probably has a Morocco origin.....if the blade is sharp on the top edge only back to the "angle" this would tend to support the real weapon probability/possibility, although it wouldn't be an absolute necessity and after reading the hilt descriptions I'm beginning to suspect that it's silver sheet or silvered brass applied flyssa fashion over a wooden core.
If so that would make the ricasso/ferule area more understandable too.
Definitely strange enough to fit in with my "lost boys" as I tend to think of the unusual variants/reincarnated captures, with the sad part being that so many collectors insist that weapons need to be EXACTLY like a known stereotype/prototype......this seems particularly strange and sad to me in cases where there is little information on the known originals or else the type is known from a very few examples as many truly valuable and rare weapons are probably consigned to the novelty/tourist/fake categories, thus little valued and often destroyed or lost to history/posterity.
Mike

[tom hyle]

Now, Mike, you know very well that if it isn't just like the one in the book it simply must be a fake
Ha ha!
Actually, Conogre and I are on the same page here; I can't tell you how many collectors and dealers I've encountered who say "I don't know what this is; I've never seen anything like it" as an expression of disinterest, while I say it with wonder.
One guy told me that about a Collins 1005 while he had 3 others under his counter about 7 feet away for $140 each "I don't know what this is...." was his excuse to try to get it off me cheaty-cheap.

[Andrew]

I wonder if this knife deserves entry into the famous "steaknives of the world"?