Kaskara

Selohr · 12th April 2018, 02:29 PM

Hello, I'm new to this forum and would like to ask for advice. I recently purchased a kaskara and seller didn't have much info on it apart from it being brought from Egypt in 1970's. It is in fairly decent shape except for the loose hilt. Considering I don't know much about these swords I would like to ask for the help to see if it is an antique or a tourist souvenir. In case it is just a souvenir, without historic value, I'd go ahead with fixing the hilt and making it usable because it is such a nice, light and lively blade itwould be a shame not to let it cut some light targets

Here are the photos, excuse the quality but my mobile phone camera is all I have at disposal.
Thank you in advance!
Sinisa

Iain · 13th April 2018, 02:33 PM

1970s sounds about right. I'd class it as a tourist object, these shorter examples were to a degree made to be easier to take back for tourists I think.

That's not to say its a bad little sword, its made in the same manner as the full size ones.

Selohr · 13th April 2018, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iain

1970s sounds about right. I'd class it as a tourist object, these shorter examples were to a degree made to be easier to take back for tourists I think.

That's not to say its a bad little sword, its made in the same manner as the full size ones.

Thank you for your feedback. Actually blade is 89 cm which I think I read it's about right length.
Do you maybe know how the hilt is constructed in these?

Edster · 13th April 2018, 11:43 PM

I agree with Iain with a caveat. In my experience the major market for these simple kaskara were to use in urban Sudanese weddings. As part of the post marriage festivities the groom (and perhaps other male relatives) would dance around to music and shake a sword in the air no doubt he was prepared to protect his new household.

These swords, at least in the 1980s and much before, were sold on the street by itinerant vendors or in local periodic markets in most towns. Tourists, other foreign visitors, as wells as potential grooms, would find them attractive to buy. While your sword may have been bought by a tourist it wasn't necessarily made for that purpose.

Regards,
Ed

RobertGuy · 14th April 2018, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iain

....these shorter examples were to a degree made to be easier to take back for tourists I think....

Iain, How much shorter are these tourist blades? I thought most Kaskara were about a yard 35-37 inches (89-104 cm ) in the blade. I agree Selohr's blade looks like tourist or wedding

quality but I don't see it as being particularly short for ease of transport.(88.5 cm )

Kubur · 14th April 2018, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iain

1970s sounds about right. I'd class it as a tourist object, these shorter examples were to a degree made to be easier to take back for tourists I think.

That's not to say its a bad little sword, its made in the same manner as the full size ones.

I agree with 1970ties probably from Aswan.
I disagree with the "short blades" for tourists, I've seen several short blades on Tabouka and Kaskara and in fact its the opposite they were the real daily life kaskara much more easier to use...
Two examples from Beni Amer and Beja hills, Hadendoa.

Selohr · 14th April 2018, 01:22 PM

Thank you all for your feedback. Blade is sharp and looks like it was bought sharp. Were tourist or wedding pieces usually made sharp? Also, how would one go about fixing a loose hilt? Is it fixed with just resin or can I expect a rivett under the wrap too?

David R · 15th April 2018, 11:52 AM

They are usually a fairly short tang, with a punched hole towards the end. They are fixed by a metal pin, or a nail through the grip and the tang.

Selohr · 15th April 2018, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David R

They are usually a fairly short tang, with a punched hole towards the end. They are fixed by a metal pin, or a nail through the grip and the tang.

Thank you!

Edster · 15th April 2018, 02:27 PM

The blade would have been sharp when it left the "factory" as the maker would not know the ultimate type of customer. In the 1960s-70s sword use was still an active means of self defence and/or of "being armed". BTW the cross guard is of good quality and rather old; in the Sennar location style.

Iain · 23rd April 2018, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selohr

Thank you for your feedback. Actually blade is 89 cm which I think I read it's about right length.
Do you maybe know how the hilt is constructed in these?

Looked shorter for some reason. That's about the usual size.

Iain · 23rd April 2018, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

I agree with 1970ties probably from Aswan.
I disagree with the "short blades" for tourists, I've seen several short blades on Tabouka and Kaskara and in fact its the opposite they were the real daily life kaskara much more easier to use...
Two examples from Beni Amer and Beja hills, Hadendoa.

I've seen some shortened older blades but these are rare. There are mainly examples of poor quality thuluth blades and period quotations I have posted in the past of these being hawked to tourists.

That doesn't mean every example is/was for the purpose. But certainly some were during the time madhist pieces were in fashion as bring backs.

kronckew · 23rd April 2018, 09:05 PM

That does look like the blade was fullered rather than a more touristy flat stock. the wormholes in the grip could be filled in with superglue to help stabilise the wood if you do try cutting with it. If there is no staple/bent nail/cotter pin hidden under the wrap, holding the grip scales and blade, I'd be leery of cutting anything with it, especially with anyone in the immediate vicinity that might be hit by a flying blade while you are left holding the remains of the grip. The long ones were often used from camelback & would be an impediment if dismounted, or trying to defend a building, these, like naval hangers (and roman gladii) are more suited for close work. A lot of indigenous people STILL guard their homes with cold steel.

Selohr · 25th April 2018, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

That does look like the blade was fullered rather than a more touristy flat stock. the wormholes in the grip could be filled in with superglue to help stabilise the wood if you do try cutting with it. If there is no staple/bent nail/cotter pin hidden under the wrap, holding the grip scales and blade, I'd be leery of cutting anything with it, especially with anyone in the immediate vicinity that might be hit by a flying blade while you are left holding the remains of the grip. The long ones were often used from camelback & would be an impediment if dismounted, or trying to defend a building, these, like naval hangers (and roman gladii) are more suited for close work. A lot of indigenous people STILL guard their homes with cold steel.

Had some time to examine it and the movement within a hilt is because the wood of the grip has rotted towards the guard, it does seem to be held by a rivet beneath that leather strip wrap, in any case I won't attempt any swinging until i find a way to fix it. I suppose it will require taking the grip off and making a new one. Anybody got any tips on restoring the leather of the scabbard, it is very dry and starting to crack?
Was thinking on selling it as is but my kid said that he wants to have it when he grows up...I was a bit surprised he would prefer it over the shiny, modern reproduction European swords I have...

kronckew · 3rd May 2018, 02:52 PM

Just found a photo of a takouba's tang, might be of interest...

Iain · 3rd May 2018, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

Just found a photo of a takouba's tang, might be of interest...

It might have been in takouba mounts but that was at some point mounted as a kaskara.

Takouba don't use a pin, but a full tang through the pommel.

Jim McDougall · 14th April 2019, 03:03 PM

It is always interesting to see discussions on kaskara, especially when these aspects of more modern examples are observed. I very much agree with the date consensus on this one, and as noted, these were not necessarily made 'just' for tourists. While many traditional ethnographic weapons do end up in souks and sale venues, they are likely most honestly intended for traditional uses, with weddings of course as well as other celebratory events.

I also agree that the shorter examples are intended for the wear over the shoulder, which is often seen in period photographs. It seems I recall one of Zubier Pasha, a notorious slaver, mounted wearing one in this manner, while a longer (full size) one was attached to the saddle under his leg. This was very much in the European manner of a 'tuck' (large straight sword) under the riders leg while he wears a sabre.

The steel used in this blade was probably in the same manner as the old lorry springs used in the early days of British occupation in Sudan and it would seem that the very process of grinding the blade down would render a reasonably sharp edge. These methods of kaskara production have been handed down for generations, which is why I have always considered even newer examples like this very much good 'ethnographic examples'.

Selohr, its a nice thing that your son has expressed interest in this kaskara, and it is almost in keeping with the true character of owning such a sword in the Sudan. …..passed from father to son.

12th April 2018, 02:29 PM	#1
Selohr Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 6	Need advice - Kaskara Hello, I'm new to this forum and would like to ask for advice. I recently purchased a kaskara and seller didn't have much info on it apart from it being brought from Egypt in 1970's. It is in fairly decent shape except for the loose hilt. Considering I don't know much about these swords I would like to ask for the help to see if it is an antique or a tourist souvenir. In case it is just a souvenir, without historic value, I'd go ahead with fixing the hilt and making it usable because it is such a nice, light and lively blade itwould be a shame not to let it cut some light targets Here are the photos, excuse the quality but my mobile phone camera is all I have at disposal. Thank you in advance! Sinisa Attached Images Last edited by Selohr; 13th April 2018 at 09:28 AM. Reason: clarity of post

15th April 2018, 11:52 AM	#8
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,079	They are usually a fairly short tang, with a punched hole towards the end. They are fixed by a metal pin, or a nail through the grip and the tang. Attached Images

3rd May 2018, 02:52 PM	#15
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,182	Just found a photo of a takouba's tang, might be of interest... Attached Images

13th April 2018, 02:33 PM	#2
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	1970s sounds about right. I'd class it as a tourist object, these shorter examples were to a degree made to be easier to take back for tourists I think. That's not to say its a bad little sword, its made in the same manner as the full size ones.

13th April 2018, 11:43 PM	#4
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 408	I agree with Iain with a caveat. In my experience the major market for these simple kaskara were to use in urban Sudanese weddings. As part of the post marriage festivities the groom (and perhaps other male relatives) would dance around to music and shake a sword in the air no doubt he was prepared to protect his new household. These swords, at least in the 1980s and much before, were sold on the street by itinerant vendors or in local periodic markets in most towns. Tourists, other foreign visitors, as wells as potential grooms, would find them attractive to buy. While your sword may have been bought by a tourist it wasn't necessarily made for that purpose. Regards, Ed

14th April 2018, 01:22 PM	#7
Selohr Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 6	Thank you all for your feedback. Blade is sharp and looks like it was bought sharp. Were tourist or wedding pieces usually made sharp? Also, how would one go about fixing a loose hilt? Is it fixed with just resin or can I expect a rivett under the wrap too?

15th April 2018, 02:27 PM	#10
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 408	The blade would have been sharp when it left the "factory" as the maker would not know the ultimate type of customer. In the 1960s-70s sword use was still an active means of self defence and/or of "being armed". BTW the cross guard is of good quality and rather old; in the Sennar location style.

23rd April 2018, 09:05 PM	#13
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,182	That does look like the blade was fullered rather than a more touristy flat stock. the wormholes in the grip could be filled in with superglue to help stabilise the wood if you do try cutting with it. If there is no staple/bent nail/cotter pin hidden under the wrap, holding the grip scales and blade, I'd be leery of cutting anything with it, especially with anyone in the immediate vicinity that might be hit by a flying blade while you are left holding the remains of the grip. The long ones were often used from camelback & would be an impediment if dismounted, or trying to defend a building, these, like naval hangers (and roman gladii) are more suited for close work. A lot of indigenous people STILL guard their homes with cold steel.

14th April 2019, 03:03 PM	#17
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,943	It is always interesting to see discussions on kaskara, especially when these aspects of more modern examples are observed. I very much agree with the date consensus on this one, and as noted, these were not necessarily made 'just' for tourists. While many traditional ethnographic weapons do end up in souks and sale venues, they are likely most honestly intended for traditional uses, with weddings of course as well as other celebratory events. I also agree that the shorter examples are intended for the wear over the shoulder, which is often seen in period photographs. It seems I recall one of Zubier Pasha, a notorious slaver, mounted wearing one in this manner, while a longer (full size) one was attached to the saddle under his leg. This was very much in the European manner of a 'tuck' (large straight sword) under the riders leg while he wears a sabre. The steel used in this blade was probably in the same manner as the old lorry springs used in the early days of British occupation in Sudan and it would seem that the very process of grinding the blade down would render a reasonably sharp edge. These methods of kaskara production have been handed down for generations, which is why I have always considered even newer examples like this very much good 'ethnographic examples'. Selohr, its a nice thing that your son has expressed interest in this kaskara, and it is almost in keeping with the true character of owning such a sword in the Sudan. …..passed from father to son.