PORTION OF A CROSSBOW for ID

Cerjak · 23rd April 2016, 11:56 AM

PORTION OF A CROSSBOW for ID
The broad bow of flattened triangular section ( wide 47cm)
Could we know from witch type of crossbow this rest come from ?

best
Cerjak

corrado26 · 23rd April 2016, 12:39 PM

This could be the remains of a bullet-shooting target crossbow with a barrel as used in Belgium (see Payne-Gallaway, The Crossbow, mediaeval and modern military and sporting, 10th Impression 1995)

Pukka Bundook · 23rd April 2016, 03:58 PM

I think it was made for a conventional bolt, as the top of the tiller is grooved.

It has been a beautifully made piece! The prod/bow is a fantastic piece of work. To make something like that, and then temper it to a spring, is a real feat.
I'll have a look in Sir RPG's book on crossbows and see if I can see something similar.
How strong does the bow feel? By that, I mean does it feel like it could have been drawn against the chest? or would a goatsfoot have had to be used? (or similar spanning device)

Again, Beautiful work!

corrado26 · 23rd April 2016, 04:54 PM

I think it was certainly not made for a normal bolt!
corrado26

Pukka Bundook · 24th April 2016, 04:06 AM

Corrado,

That bracket over the tiller is a puzzle, as it would appear that it would Also interfere with a projectile from a bullet crossbow.
I still think a bolt was to be fired, but maybe the type without fletching? ....making this piece possibly a slurbow?
If the bolt/quarrel was laid across this 'fence', it could not get out of line if a wooden upper portion of the "barrel" enclosed it.
The groove in the forestock looks like it was meant to take the projectile. (Whatever it was!) and if covered as I think it may have been, would be in essence a slurbow.
The groove in the fore-stock would I believe have to be deeper and of a consistent depth if a barrel was to be fitted.
Also, one would think it unlikely to bed a barrel into the bone/ivory strip that runs up the centre of the stock. Most times when a 'wear strip' like this is fitted, it is for the projectile to travel over.
I really do not know what it is, and only give my opinion as a guess. :-)

Very best wishes,
Richard.

corrado26 · 24th April 2016, 09:15 AM

Richard,
please have a look to the picture I posted above and you'll see how this crossbow could have worked
corrado26

Pukka Bundook · 24th April 2016, 03:54 PM

Dear Corrado,

I have looked at the pictures, both the ones you kindly posted and also in Sir RPG's book.
Looking at the first pictures again, I think I have it. (but maybe not!)

You will note in Sir RPG's book, that the grooved area where the bolt lies, Crossbows can be made in various shapes, some convex and some concave along their length. I see in the first pictures posted, that there is a slight groove at the rear, and a deeper groove towards the front of the stock where the bolt lies. This arrangement is to be seen on page 70.

Cerjak,

A question if I may;
If you lay a straight -edge in the "bolt groove", does it touch at both ends and miss the metal bridge part of the bow?
In other words, is the grooved area slightly concave or dished from end to end??

Edited to add, after Another look;

Is the bow seated as deep as it will go into the stock??
I ask, as the 'wing nut" on the underside is only half threaded onto the bolt, and it looks to me like the bow could be tightened down into the stock more, causing the bridge area to become flush with the surface where the bolt lies.

Corrado,
Thank you for getting me to look at this closer, it is a very interesting piece!

Cerjak · 27th April 2016, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Dear Corrado,

I have looked at the pictures, both the ones you kindly posted and also in Sir RPG's book.
Looking at the first pictures again, I think I have it. (but maybe not!)

You will note in Sir RPG's book, that the grooved area where the bolt lies, Crossbows can be made in various shapes, some convex and some concave along their length. I see in the first pictures posted, that there is a slight groove at the rear, and a deeper groove towards the front of the stock where the bolt lies. This arrangement is to be seen on page 70.

Cerjak,

A question if I may;
If you lay a straight -edge in the "bolt groove", does it touch at both ends and miss the metal bridge part of the bow?
In other words, is the grooved area slightly concave or dished from end to end??

Edited to add, after Another look;

Is the bow seated as deep as it will go into the stock??
I ask, as the 'wing nut" on the underside is only half threaded onto the bolt, and it looks to me like the bow could be tightened down into the stock more, causing the bridge area to become flush with the surface where the bolt lies.

Corrado,
Thank you for getting me to look at this closer, it is a very interesting piece!

Dear Richard
Yes the bow could be more into the stock
May this pictures will help you.

Best
Cerjak

Pukka Bundook · 28th April 2016, 05:53 AM

Dear Carjak,

Thank you for the additional photos.
I am now sure this crossbow was made for conventional bolts.

The actual bow is beautifully made, a real work of art!
I will keep looking, as I have not seen one exactly the same.
Do you have an idea where it could have originated?
To me it looks Germanic, but that is maybe because many were!

It is a great piece. Congratulations on finding it!

Richard.

Cerjak · 28th April 2016, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Dear Carjak,

Thank you for the additional photos.
I am now sure this crossbow was made for conventional bolts.

The actual bow is beautifully made, a real work of art!
I will keep looking, as I have not seen one exactly the same.
Do you have an idea where it could have originated?
To me it looks Germanic, but that is maybe because many were!

It is a great piece. Congratulations on finding it!

Richard.

Hi Richard,
Thank you for your comment.

It had been sold as a portion of 16 th century Spanish crossbow.
Best

Cerjak

Pukka Bundook · 29th April 2016, 07:34 AM

I think 16th century sounds right Cerjak, but am totally ignorant of Spanish crossbows I am afraid!

If I find one like yours on line or in a book, I will post a picture.
Thank you again for showing it.

Kind regards,
Richard.

23rd April 2016, 11:56 AM	#1
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	PORTION OF A CROSSBOW for ID PORTION OF A CROSSBOW for ID The broad bow of flattened triangular section ( wide 47cm) Could we know from witch type of crossbow this rest come from ? best Cerjak Attached Images

23rd April 2016, 12:39 PM	#2
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,207	This could be the remains of a bullet-shooting target crossbow with a barrel as used in Belgium (see Payne-Gallaway, The Crossbow, mediaeval and modern military and sporting, 10th Impression 1995) Attached Images

23rd April 2016, 04:54 PM	#4
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,207	I think it was certainly not made for a normal bolt! corrado26 Attached Images

23rd April 2016, 03:58 PM	#3
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	I think it was made for a conventional bolt, as the top of the tiller is grooved. It has been a beautifully made piece! The prod/bow is a fantastic piece of work. To make something like that, and then temper it to a spring, is a real feat. I'll have a look in Sir RPG's book on crossbows and see if I can see something similar. How strong does the bow feel? By that, I mean does it feel like it could have been drawn against the chest? or would a goatsfoot have had to be used? (or similar spanning device) Again, Beautiful work!

24th April 2016, 04:06 AM	#5
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Corrado, That bracket over the tiller is a puzzle, as it would appear that it would Also interfere with a projectile from a bullet crossbow. I still think a bolt was to be fired, but maybe the type without fletching? ....making this piece possibly a slurbow? If the bolt/quarrel was laid across this 'fence', it could not get out of line if a wooden upper portion of the "barrel" enclosed it. The groove in the forestock looks like it was meant to take the projectile. (Whatever it was!) and if covered as I think it may have been, would be in essence a slurbow. The groove in the fore-stock would I believe have to be deeper and of a consistent depth if a barrel was to be fitted. Also, one would think it unlikely to bed a barrel into the bone/ivory strip that runs up the centre of the stock. Most times when a 'wear strip' like this is fitted, it is for the projectile to travel over. I really do not know what it is, and only give my opinion as a guess. :-) Very best wishes, Richard.

24th April 2016, 09:15 AM	#6
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,207	Richard, please have a look to the picture I posted above and you'll see how this crossbow could have worked corrado26

24th April 2016, 03:54 PM	#7
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Dear Corrado, I have looked at the pictures, both the ones you kindly posted and also in Sir RPG's book. Looking at the first pictures again, I think I have it. (but maybe not!) You will note in Sir RPG's book, that the grooved area where the bolt lies, Crossbows can be made in various shapes, some convex and some concave along their length. I see in the first pictures posted, that there is a slight groove at the rear, and a deeper groove towards the front of the stock where the bolt lies. This arrangement is to be seen on page 70. Cerjak, A question if I may; If you lay a straight -edge in the "bolt groove", does it touch at both ends and miss the metal bridge part of the bow? In other words, is the grooved area slightly concave or dished from end to end?? Edited to add, after Another look; Is the bow seated as deep as it will go into the stock?? I ask, as the 'wing nut" on the underside is only half threaded onto the bolt, and it looks to me like the bow could be tightened down into the stock more, causing the bridge area to become flush with the surface where the bolt lies. Corrado, Thank you for getting me to look at this closer, it is a very interesting piece!

28th April 2016, 05:53 AM	#9
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Dear Carjak, Thank you for the additional photos. I am now sure this crossbow was made for conventional bolts. The actual bow is beautifully made, a real work of art! I will keep looking, as I have not seen one exactly the same. Do you have an idea where it could have originated? To me it looks Germanic, but that is maybe because many were! It is a great piece. Congratulations on finding it! Richard.

29th April 2016, 07:34 AM	#11
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	I think 16th century sounds right Cerjak, but am totally ignorant of Spanish crossbows I am afraid! If I find one like yours on line or in a book, I will post a picture. Thank you again for showing it. Kind regards, Richard.