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#1 |
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Join Date: Nov 2010
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Dear members ,
This keris from Bali with a very smooth and black shining blade has a strange pamor on one side only . Is that a mistake from the maker , is that a " fantasy " , or is that something we could classified .... Thank you for your thoughts Henri |
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#2 |
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Hello Henri,
Such a unsymmetrical pamor is called pamor tangkis, see examples on Google. Regards |
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#3 |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
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Hello Henri,
best and shortest explanation you will find here: "Tangkis- a means of warding off, or a shield; a blade is said to have pamor tangkis when it carries a different pamor motif on each of its blade faces, and this is considered to be a talisman against black magic." It is a citation from a site of a member here but by some reason don't want to provide the link. ![]() BTW, nice blade! Regards, Detlef |
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#4 | |
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![]() I could be wrong, but his appears to be an accidental pamor. Such pamors are usually considered special due to their accidental nature i believe. ![]() |
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#5 |
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I am not very sure as well David, of course, one side is kelengan, the other side have pamor. Think it's still pamor tangkis.
![]() Regards, Detlef |
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#6 |
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Yeah, I agree that this is a borderline case because of the pamor kelengan and just a pamor motif on the other side, and tangkis is a javanese name AFAIK. The odd pamor motif seems original and not accidental from the pictures, but a closer inspection could reveal the contrary. The blade looks original and old.
Regards |
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#7 | |
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#8 |
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By "accidental" I mean unwanted pamor and not unplanned pamor.
If this was a Javanese blade, I would compare the motif with known ones described by Tammens or Van Veenendaal for instance but this is probably not applicable for a Balinese blade. This blade is well made and I doubt that the maker would have left an unwanted motif but I don't know whether it is a planned or unplanned one. The pamor motif looks to be superficial so it may have been made more recently than the blade itself. Regards |
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#9 |
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"The pamor motif looks to be superficial so it may have been made more recently than the blade itself."
It's funny that you say that - my eye is untrained and my knowledge fits on the head of a pin - but, when I first studied the pamor, that exact thought entered my mind. It just seem "off" to me. |
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#10 |
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Yes, Jean, I agree: The pamor looks very superficial -- almost like painted on ...
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#11 | |
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And Jean, my use of "accidental" was to mean "unplanned", not "unwanted". ![]() ![]() |
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#12 |
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David, I agree with you, although the picture is clear it is not possible to determine if the pamor motif is genuine or fake (applied or etched with acid) but if the case, it is more smartly made than usually. It also seems odd to do it on one side of the blade only but who knows?
Regards |
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#13 |
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Thank you guys for your comments .
From " fake " to " painted " or etch applied " .... when I take this keris on hand and look at this pamor very very closely I can assure the pamor is real but yes the nickel is not dep into the blade ( photos below ) . This keris was part of a lot of 10 I bought sometimes ago to a collector in the UK who passed away and pretty sure he has not bought this one in a tourist shop during a visit in Bali ! But .... never never know ! Henri |
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#14 |
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I hope that Alan will give us a clue when he returns from Europe.
Regards |
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#15 |
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I returned home and checked 2 items:
1. According to the EK, pamor tangkis would be the correct description for this blade (one side with pamor, one side without pamor or kelengan). The correct name in case of 2 different pamors on each side is pamor slewah. 2. I could not find a similar pamor motif in my reference books but they refer to Javanese blades only. Regards |
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#16 |
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Thank you Jean . After consulting some documentations I agree we could called this one "tangkis" . I have got in the past a similar pamor on a Bali keris but both sides of the blade . I am still surprised by the very thin layer of nickel for this pamor . Not painted ! Not an easy job for the swordsmith to shape and keep the pamor ...
Henri |
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#17 |
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A bit late with this post. Sorry, just noticed the thread.
According to my understanding this is not pamor tangkis. Pamor tangkis is a different pamor on each blade face. This keris has a small seemingly accidental patch of pamor on one blade face only, the other blade face has no pamor. This cannot be classified as pamor tangkis. |
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#18 | |
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#19 | |
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#20 |
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Yes Jean, I can understand your confusion, however, I think we need to look behind what is on the page.
Haryono Guritno is an authority in his own right; Bambang Harsrinuksmo was a journalist who was very interested in keris. There are a number of errors in EK, as well as a number of statements that have drawn strong disagreement from people I know in Solo. However, this is not to say that Bambang was wrong, nor that EK is without value. Why? Because in the study of keris, opinions vary and those opinions can vary a lot. Its almost a matter of which school you went to. Keris study is not a standardised study. Its not like Japanese swords where everything is written down and standardised; with Jap swords, if you have a good enough memory you can learn everything and win signature reading competitions against Japanese masters, even if you were born in London. But you cannot do this with keris.To understand the keris you need to be able to think in a Javanese way and understand things as Javanese people understand things. Keris study is not about memory and categorisation according to set parameters. Keris study is about the culture from which the keris comes, and the language of that culture is not even a standardised language in linguistic terms. With keris, we need to take in everything and try to understand it within its own context. EK tells us that pamor tangkis has the power to avoid illness caused by an epidemic, there is no mention of black magic. Then if we look at the picture that is in EK we see a keris with faint, worn pamor on one blade face, and wos wutah on the other blade face. Keris Jawa just describes the physical appearance of pamor tangkis, it doesn't say anything about its esoteric powers. Then we have the fact that both EK and KJ are books that are primarily Javanese in context, yes, EK does try to move outside Jawa, but the influence on thought and text is Javanese. The blade being discussed is from Bali. The meaning of a little patch of pamor on one blade face could be quite different in Bali. Maybe it could be different in every separate kingdom in Bali. The opinion I gave is exactly what I have been taught, and 90% of my knowledge comes from Solo. Possibly there is room in this question for a little bit of leeway in various opinions. |
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#21 |
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Thank you Alan and I fully agree with what you say.
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#22 |
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dear forum ,
firstly i would like to thanks to the admin and all member for warm welcome to me. as a newbie i want to share some pic's of my keris (it's been sold ) , pamor tangkis ;related with the topics. thank you. Ganja Iras |
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#23 | |
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![]() anyhow, as far as I know, pamor tangkis means that one side is keleng (without pamor) and other have some kind of pamor tangkis could also mean : block / parry and this in my limited knowledge and general acceptance here is tend to be associated with blocking black magic, secondly to block anything bad, including plague, illnesses, etc according to friend of mine (he could be wrong, though), all krisses with pamor in one side of the blade called TANGKIS, means the other side is kelengan all krisses with 2 pamors, say it on one side of the blade or different side of the blade called dwi warno / dwi warna |
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