Need Help with my first Keris

William.m · 4th April 2006, 12:12 AM

Hello all, I bought my first keris today after having collected Talibon for a whole, but my keris has some problems. Firstly the scabbard is cracked along the side and the wide opening part is wobbles quite a bit, and may fall off at any time.

The blade itself looks okay but im very worried with the amount of red rust present on the blade.

I have read up on the various ritual cleaning techniques of the keris, but how do I properly clean the keris from this red rust in order to preserve the blade?

Thanks guys,

Will

Ps: If anybody has any info on this keris I would be fascinated to hear about it.

nechesh · 4th April 2006, 12:28 AM

Welcome William. Sometimes it helps to do a good search of the old threads since this is ground we have covered many times now. Here's a link to the old forum which has some very valuable info for you.

http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000717.html
As for the wobble, you probably just need to wrap a little extra material around the tang (pesi) to tighten up the fit. You are going to need to remove the hilt anyway to clean your blade, so just twist it carefully back and forth while pulling it towards you and the handle should easily come off. You should use thin strips of material or thread (some use yarn), but add it slowly and check the fit. It you over do it you could crack the hilt putting it back on.
Did your keris come with a sheath?

William.m · 4th April 2006, 12:41 AM

Hi nechesh thanks for the reply.

The looseness that I was talking about was with the sheath/scabbard. I will post some more pictures of the sheath tomorrow, as it is in pretty bad condition. I have been a long time lurker on this forum and the old, and I have read that post you kindly linked me. Thing is that I don't want to use these fruit acids on the blade as the blade's white pattern (nickle) will dull, and I do not have access to the arsnic needed to clean the blade, nor do I want to use it with there being kids running around the house.

Many thanks,

William

Rick · 4th April 2006, 02:03 AM

Are those grind marks I see on the edge ?

William , try a toothbrush and some oil for starters .

William.m · 4th April 2006, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

William , try a toothbrush and some oil for starters .

Okay done that, although instead of oil I used a dishwasher soap. I got some results but there is still plenty of red rust that will not go. Later today I am considering putting the blade in a bath of lemon juice, or possibly rubbing half a lemon on the blade. But instead of this could I give it a bath of vinegar instead?

Many thanks,

Will

Rick · 4th April 2006, 03:49 PM

Will , I think you might do better with unsweetened pineapple juice as it is less acidic than your other two choices . Being less acidic the process might take longer but you will have more control .

William.m · 4th April 2006, 07:23 PM

Hello, I have managed to clean off most of the rust using half a lemon, worked very well!

The only problem now is that the blade is a tad too shiny and so is there any way to blacken it a bit without having to use arsnic or anything like that?

Cheers,

Will

Henk · 4th April 2006, 08:32 PM

Will,

Although not the usual way you can use ferric chloride to get the pamor back. Another method is sulphur acid. But before you do this you should remove al the rust with the lemon juice. I suppose you already did this because the blade is shiny. But the best thing you can do is find somebody who can re-etch the blade with arsenic. Then you get the pamor back with the blade deep black.

nechesh · 5th April 2006, 01:32 AM

William, if i were you i would go back to the thread i linked for you and work this out step by step. It seems you are in a bit of a rush to work this blade and i think it might be to your benefit to slow down and attack this situation more methodically. I agree with Rick that pineapple juice is a great acidic liquid to use. You really MUST remove ALL of the rust before you can even think about restoring the pamor pattern of this blade. I would let this puppy soak for a while (a few days) frequently brushing the surface with an old toothbrush. Once this is done you can start to figure out how to stain it. But truthfully, the arsenic and lime mixture (warangan) is the only thing that will restore the proper color to the iron. Other chemicals will raise the pamor, but it won't be quite right. There are people who can do this work for you if you don't want to mess with such sustances.

William.m · 5th April 2006, 11:03 PM

Hiya, okay well it looks like my option is to find somebody in the UK who can do the whole arsnic thing. Do you know how anybody who I could contact?
As to the pinapple juice, I have some in a tin is this okay to use?
Thank you all very much for the help so far.

Regards,

Will

nechesh · 5th April 2006, 11:46 PM

Sure, the stuff in the ti is what i use.

Your blade looks like it has a very clear pamor and it should stain up nicely when you can find someone to do it.

Rick · 5th April 2006, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William.m

Hiya, okay well it looks like my option is to find somebody in the UK who can do the whole arsnic thing. Do you know how anybody who I could contact?
As to the pinapple juice, I have some in a tin is this okay to use?
Thank you all very much for the help so far.

Regards,

Will

Unsweetened pineapple juice ?
Okay .

Probably okay even if sweetened as sugar shouldn't affect the acid content ( but I may be talking out my a%se on this point ) I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong .

You could send it to the US for traditional staining ; I'll ask a friend if he's up for the job . There may also be someone in Holland who can do this (any of our Dutch members , time to speak up) !

Rick

BluErf · 8th April 2006, 01:03 AM

I'm going to wash a keris blade this evening, and I'm going to use grapefruit juice, straight from the tetrapak.

As long as there is citric acid in the juice, it should work. Vinegar is fine, if you don't mind the smell.

But based on my experience, vinegar gives a darker grey look while citric acid gives a whiter look. Not sure why.

Rick · 8th April 2006, 03:17 AM

There's really no substitute for the traditional warangan stain .

4th April 2006, 12:12 AM	#1
William.m Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: England Posts: 104	Need Help with my first Keris Hello all, I bought my first keris today after having collected Talibon for a whole, but my keris has some problems. Firstly the scabbard is cracked along the side and the wide opening part is wobbles quite a bit, and may fall off at any time. The blade itself looks okay but im very worried with the amount of red rust present on the blade. I have read up on the various ritual cleaning techniques of the keris, but how do I properly clean the keris from this red rust in order to preserve the blade? Thanks guys, Will Ps: If anybody has any info on this keris I would be fascinated to hear about it.

4th April 2006, 12:28 AM	#2
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Welcome William. Sometimes it helps to do a good search of the old threads since this is ground we have covered many times now. Here's a link to the old forum which has some very valuable info for you. http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000717.html As for the wobble, you probably just need to wrap a little extra material around the tang (pesi) to tighten up the fit. You are going to need to remove the hilt anyway to clean your blade, so just twist it carefully back and forth while pulling it towards you and the handle should easily come off. You should use thin strips of material or thread (some use yarn), but add it slowly and check the fit. It you over do it you could crack the hilt putting it back on. Did your keris come with a sheath?

4th April 2006, 12:41 AM	#3
William.m Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: England Posts: 104	Hi nechesh thanks for the reply. The looseness that I was talking about was with the sheath/scabbard. I will post some more pictures of the sheath tomorrow, as it is in pretty bad condition. I have been a long time lurker on this forum and the old, and I have read that post you kindly linked me. Thing is that I don't want to use these fruit acids on the blade as the blade's white pattern (nickle) will dull, and I do not have access to the arsnic needed to clean the blade, nor do I want to use it with there being kids running around the house. Many thanks, William

4th April 2006, 02:03 AM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	Are those grind marks I see on the edge ? William , try a toothbrush and some oil for starters .

4th April 2006, 03:49 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	Will , I think you might do better with unsweetened pineapple juice as it is less acidic than your other two choices . Being less acidic the process might take longer but you will have more control .

4th April 2006, 07:23 PM	#7
William.m Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: England Posts: 104	Hello, I have managed to clean off most of the rust using half a lemon, worked very well! The only problem now is that the blade is a tad too shiny and so is there any way to blacken it a bit without having to use arsnic or anything like that? Cheers, Will

4th April 2006, 08:32 PM	#8
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Will, Although not the usual way you can use ferric chloride to get the pamor back. Another method is sulphur acid. But before you do this you should remove al the rust with the lemon juice. I suppose you already did this because the blade is shiny. But the best thing you can do is find somebody who can re-etch the blade with arsenic. Then you get the pamor back with the blade deep black.

5th April 2006, 01:32 AM	#9
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	William, if i were you i would go back to the thread i linked for you and work this out step by step. It seems you are in a bit of a rush to work this blade and i think it might be to your benefit to slow down and attack this situation more methodically. I agree with Rick that pineapple juice is a great acidic liquid to use. You really MUST remove ALL of the rust before you can even think about restoring the pamor pattern of this blade. I would let this puppy soak for a while (a few days) frequently brushing the surface with an old toothbrush. Once this is done you can start to figure out how to stain it. But truthfully, the arsenic and lime mixture (warangan) is the only thing that will restore the proper color to the iron. Other chemicals will raise the pamor, but it won't be quite right. There are people who can do this work for you if you don't want to mess with such sustances.

5th April 2006, 11:03 PM	#10
William.m Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: England Posts: 104	Hiya, okay well it looks like my option is to find somebody in the UK who can do the whole arsnic thing. Do you know how anybody who I could contact? As to the pinapple juice, I have some in a tin is this okay to use? Thank you all very much for the help so far. Regards, Will

5th April 2006, 11:46 PM	#11
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Sure, the stuff in the ti is what i use. Your blade looks like it has a very clear pamor and it should stain up nicely when you can find someone to do it.

8th April 2006, 01:03 AM	#13
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	I'm going to wash a keris blade this evening, and I'm going to use grapefruit juice, straight from the tetrapak. As long as there is citric acid in the juice, it should work. Vinegar is fine, if you don't mind the smell. But based on my experience, vinegar gives a darker grey look while citric acid gives a whiter look. Not sure why.

8th April 2006, 03:17 AM	#14
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	There's really no substitute for the traditional warangan stain .