Strange sword

ariel · 20th October 2005, 03:40 AM

Just ended.
Look at this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1
The baldric is of South Arabian style; the scabbard decoration is also from that area, the crossguard is Turkish from the mid-late 19th century regulation swords, the finial is also Ottoman/Persian, the "gems" were a S. Arabian or Ottoman favourite decoration, the blade looks North African or Syrian, but the seller says that the pommel has icons (a purely Christian feature, more often Orthodox than Catholic).
What on Earth is going on? Can anybody place this short sword?
Can it be Christian Syrian/Lebanese?
Paging Artzi!!!!!!!

ham · 20th October 2005, 04:23 AM

Ariel,

The concept of tourist pieces, i.e. improbable objects which amuse, dazzle and gull foreign visitors (particularly those from the provinces,) is not endemic to the present. In fact, there have been tourist pieces as long as there have been tourists-- the mother of the first Byzantine emperor, Constantine, went off to the Holy Land after vowing to find and bring the True Cross back to Constantinople. She returned with it, in fact with several, and the tale is still told in Jerusalem that some enterprising denizen of the relic bazaar was only too happy to knock together a few odd lengths of lumber for her to come upon, seemingly forgotten, at the back of his stall.

Ham

Rivkin · 20th October 2005, 04:24 AM

I don't know - can the blade be eastern anatolian ? Besides maronites (who are catholics) they have large numbers of pontic greeks and smaller numbers of other christian groups; seeing the icons would clear up the exact canon that was used in making them.

RSWORD · 20th October 2005, 02:52 PM

I had the same thoughts as Ham. When I first noticed this piece I was thinking it might be a late 19th, early 20th century Bazaar piece made up from spare parts lying around. People were not as wasteful back in those days and I am sure an enterprising person would not let a bunch of spare pieces lying around go to waste. As Ariel has pointed out, a lot of different styles in this one piece.

Miyamoto · 20th October 2005, 03:47 PM

I don't like that sword. It looks lika a tourist souvenir.

The blade is definetly syrian and doesn't look more than 50 years old. I had a made in syria piece with almost identical blade. The crosguard doesn't seem to be original to the sword and it is soldered to the handle in a modern way.

The scabbard looks hevily redecorated for catching the tourist eye.

I've never saw that kind of glass gems on an Ottoman or even Persian piece. look at the central one... it has even a flower in it. Thinking about it it seems like an italian earing (Murano, Venice) like the ones in vogue about 7 or 8 years ago.

The handle however looks OK without that "gems" and the strange circle added recently . I'd say Serbia 17th century.

Another thing... In my opinion thoose icon drawings on metal would fade away in a period of more than 50 years

Just an old, post WWII tourist crap put toghether in somewhere in the balkans, from my point of view.

20th October 2005, 03:40 AM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Strange sword Just ended. Look at this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1 The baldric is of South Arabian style; the scabbard decoration is also from that area, the crossguard is Turkish from the mid-late 19th century regulation swords, the finial is also Ottoman/Persian, the "gems" were a S. Arabian or Ottoman favourite decoration, the blade looks North African or Syrian, but the seller says that the pommel has icons (a purely Christian feature, more often Orthodox than Catholic). What on Earth is going on? Can anybody place this short sword? Can it be Christian Syrian/Lebanese? Paging Artzi!!!!!!!

20th October 2005, 04:23 AM	#2
ham Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 190	Ariel, The concept of tourist pieces, i.e. improbable objects which amuse, dazzle and gull foreign visitors (particularly those from the provinces,) is not endemic to the present. In fact, there have been tourist pieces as long as there have been tourists-- the mother of the first Byzantine emperor, Constantine, went off to the Holy Land after vowing to find and bring the True Cross back to Constantinople. She returned with it, in fact with several, and the tale is still told in Jerusalem that some enterprising denizen of the relic bazaar was only too happy to knock together a few odd lengths of lumber for her to come upon, seemingly forgotten, at the back of his stall. Ham Last edited by ham; 20th October 2005 at 04:56 AM.

20th October 2005, 04:24 AM	#3
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	I don't know - can the blade be eastern anatolian ? Besides maronites (who are catholics) they have large numbers of pontic greeks and smaller numbers of other christian groups; seeing the icons would clear up the exact canon that was used in making them.

20th October 2005, 02:52 PM	#4
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,084	I had the same thoughts as Ham. When I first noticed this piece I was thinking it might be a late 19th, early 20th century Bazaar piece made up from spare parts lying around. People were not as wasteful back in those days and I am sure an enterprising person would not let a bunch of spare pieces lying around go to waste. As Ariel has pointed out, a lot of different styles in this one piece.

20th October 2005, 03:47 PM	#5
Miyamoto Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 44	I don't like that sword. It looks lika a tourist souvenir. The blade is definetly syrian and doesn't look more than 50 years old. I had a made in syria piece with almost identical blade. The crosguard doesn't seem to be original to the sword and it is soldered to the handle in a modern way. The scabbard looks hevily redecorated for catching the tourist eye. I've never saw that kind of glass gems on an Ottoman or even Persian piece. look at the central one... it has even a flower in it. Thinking about it it seems like an italian earing (Murano, Venice) like the ones in vogue about 7 or 8 years ago. The handle however looks OK without that "gems" and the strange circle added recently . I'd say Serbia 17th century. Another thing... In my opinion thoose icon drawings on metal would fade away in a period of more than 50 years Just an old, post WWII tourist crap put toghether in somewhere in the balkans, from my point of view.