Is this saber from Eastern Europe or?

erlikhan · 4th May 2007, 01:16 PM

Can anybody please determine the exact nationality of this sword?

it is 105 cms overall. a cavalry saber I guess, with a really heavy,wide blade.Pleasure to hold in hand. Scabbard is sewed leather over wood and iron mountings. it writes KO...... LOHARA..... maker's name perhaps? Rest is erased.
Regards

katana · 5th May 2007, 01:09 PM

Hi erlikhan,
my initial thought was India, ....and after 'googling' Lohara , I discovered it is actually a place in India

.

erlikhan · 5th May 2007, 02:04 PM

hi katana.right. some googling adressed me a region (Lohar) in India too, but not strange if so? The sword looks militaristic and a well equiped regular army style. The hand guard has a serial number (I 89 probably). Plus the writing is in not Indian but Latin alphabet. Perhaps,could be of British origin used by their forces established in Lohar region of India?

katana · 5th May 2007, 05:06 PM

Hi erlikhan,
A number of British millitary pattern swords were produced in India....I think Jim McDougall would be the man to answer your question more fully. Hopefully he will see this thread.
Also Lohar, was an area that was mined for quality iron ore....but, so far, I can find no reference to swordsmithing or forging in the area. Perhaps the steel produced from the Lohar iron ore was considered high quality...perhaps the stamp on the blade refers to quality and not where the sword was manufactured

I also found this..... which may be relavent

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadia_Lohar

And this....
".....LOHAR - Itinerant blacksmiths who used to be great warriors making their own weapons. Legend has it they originated in Chittorgarh but were defeated in the siege of that city in 1308. They then became nomadic...."

spiral · 6th May 2007, 05:17 PM

Looks like it could also be a sword made for one of the mountain batterys, {Artillary.} to me.

In ww1 they were made mole & Wilkinson, but I am sure loads would have been made in India both then & earlier.

Spiral

Jim McDougall · 8th May 2007, 08:25 PM

Hi Katana,
Thank you for the kind note!

This is indeed a British cavalry sabre made for native forces in India and dates from c.1880's to early 20th c. The sewn leather scabbard is typically found on these, and I know that J.Bourne & Co. produced sabres with almost identical scabbards. I have seen an example of one of these triple bar hilt sabres (cf. the M1829 light cavalry sabre) made by Mole and marked to the 21st cavalry (I believe Frontier Force).
Interestingly, the M1796 type blade remained popular in India until the 20th c.
and Bourne manufactured stirrup hilt sabres with the M1796 blade well into the 19th century.
Hi Spiral,
The mountain artillery sabres were actually more cutlass like, and were as you note often produced my Mole.

Very nice example of a British colonial sabre of c.1880 for native cavalry in India (for those with Wagner "Cut & Thrust Weapons" there is one shown but I do not have the page or plate number (books not handy at present).So if someone could reference I would appreciate it

All the best ,
Jim

spiral · 13th May 2007, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Hi Spiral,
The mountain artillery sabres were actually more cutlass like, and were as you note often produced my Mole.
Jim

Ahh yes indeed Jim, a little blip in my visual memory bank there. A quick check revealed you are of course correct.

cheers,
Spiral

Jim McDougall · 13th May 2007, 06:31 PM

Its great hearing from you Spiral, thanks for the note!

Trust me I know the memory blips well!!!
All the best,
Jim

erlikhan · 16th May 2007, 10:11 AM

Great. Everything is clear now.Thank you all.

4th May 2007, 01:16 PM	#1
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	Is this saber from Eastern Europe or? Can anybody please determine the exact nationality of this sword? it is 105 cms overall. a cavalry saber I guess, with a really heavy,wide blade.Pleasure to hold in hand. Scabbard is sewed leather over wood and iron mountings. it writes KO...... LOHARA..... maker's name perhaps? Rest is erased. Regards Attached Images Last edited by erlikhan; 4th May 2007 at 05:51 PM.

5th May 2007, 01:09 PM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi erlikhan, my initial thought was India, ....and after 'googling' Lohara , I discovered it is actually a place in India .

5th May 2007, 02:04 PM	#3
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	hi katana.right. some googling adressed me a region (Lohar) in India too, but not strange if so? The sword looks militaristic and a well equiped regular army style. The hand guard has a serial number (I 89 probably). Plus the writing is in not Indian but Latin alphabet. Perhaps,could be of British origin used by their forces established in Lohar region of India?

5th May 2007, 05:06 PM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi erlikhan, A number of British millitary pattern swords were produced in India....I think Jim McDougall would be the man to answer your question more fully. Hopefully he will see this thread. Also Lohar, was an area that was mined for quality iron ore....but, so far, I can find no reference to swordsmithing or forging in the area. Perhaps the steel produced from the Lohar iron ore was considered high quality...perhaps the stamp on the blade refers to quality and not where the sword was manufactured I also found this..... which may be relavent http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadia_Lohar And this.... ".....LOHAR - Itinerant blacksmiths who used to be great warriors making their own weapons. Legend has it they originated in Chittorgarh but were defeated in the siege of that city in 1308. They then became nomadic...."

6th May 2007, 05:17 PM	#5
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Looks like it could also be a sword made for one of the mountain batterys, {Artillary.} to me. In ww1 they were made mole & Wilkinson, but I am sure loads would have been made in India both then & earlier. Spiral

8th May 2007, 08:25 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,940	Hi Katana, Thank you for the kind note! This is indeed a British cavalry sabre made for native forces in India and dates from c.1880's to early 20th c. The sewn leather scabbard is typically found on these, and I know that J.Bourne & Co. produced sabres with almost identical scabbards. I have seen an example of one of these triple bar hilt sabres (cf. the M1829 light cavalry sabre) made by Mole and marked to the 21st cavalry (I believe Frontier Force). Interestingly, the M1796 type blade remained popular in India until the 20th c. and Bourne manufactured stirrup hilt sabres with the M1796 blade well into the 19th century. Hi Spiral, The mountain artillery sabres were actually more cutlass like, and were as you note often produced my Mole. Very nice example of a British colonial sabre of c.1880 for native cavalry in India (for those with Wagner "Cut & Thrust Weapons" there is one shown but I do not have the page or plate number (books not handy at present).So if someone could reference I would appreciate it All the best , Jim

13th May 2007, 06:31 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,940	Its great hearing from you Spiral, thanks for the note! Trust me I know the memory blips well!!! All the best, Jim

16th May 2007, 10:11 AM	#9
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	Great. Everything is clear now.Thank you all.