Stone carved sculpture

AHorsa · 10th October 2017, 09:11 AM

Hi Evereyone,

I need help on this sculpture. It is 40cm high and obviously made from stone.
I searched the web quite intensevely but can´t find any corresponding piece. Especially with this ball / knot on the head.
Is it a contemporary decoration or an ancient piece. And if so, what culture? Celtic, pre-columbian, asian,...?

Any help highly appreciated!

Thanks and best regards
Andreas

AHorsa · 12th October 2017, 03:37 PM

Hi Everyone,

no one an idea? Even a direction for further research might be helpful.

Best regards
Andreas

Kubur · 12th October 2017, 04:00 PM

Maybe a Tiki from polynesia...
Which kind of stone is it?

M ELEY · 12th October 2017, 09:01 PM

Hmm...the squat face, nose shape and expression strike me as Meso-American. Aztec? Incan? Just a guess, mind you. Perhaps a search for mythology involving a God/Goddess carrying the 'world' on his/her head??

Mark

Jon MB · 12th October 2017, 09:33 PM

I looked at the following:

Irish, Neolithic period
Turkey, Neolithic
Pre-Colombian Olmec votive axe (shape)

No solid leads yet.

Trick is the initial narrowing down to a geographic area.

kronckew · 13th October 2017, 11:55 AM

statues with hats and protruding top knots immediately hints at rapa nui (easter island) but those have rather longer faces. korea oddly enough has some islands with rounder faced simple prehistoric stone statues and hats with topknots or knobs of some sort. the americas, as mentioned have a variety of cultures other than aztec, mayan. inca.

as basic as this statue is, with very limited features that can be pinned to a specific culture, you may have some difficulty finding out where it's from, possibly chemical analysis of the stone would be able to determine it's origin, tho it could have been carved after being transported and traded a fairly large distance, even over seas. trade routes even in the stone age are unbelievably complex.

AHorsa · 13th October 2017, 12:00 PM

Hi All,

thanks for your replies and help!!
As figured out, the problem as even to start with geographic area, as it potentially could come from anywhere.
Maybe the material gives a hint: It seems to be Gypsum...
Does that help?

Cheerio
Andreas

kronckew · 13th October 2017, 12:37 PM

that makes it worse! gypsum is mined pretty much world wide, it's the major component of plaster.

alabaster statues are a hard form of gypsum, used for statues from prehistory in egypt and the middle east, iran, etc. thru modern times. heck, egypt even used it for mace heads. it was also used pretty much everywhere for the same reasons, easy to carve and fairly hard. germany is one of the top 22 producers

19th among the top 22 (UK is last there)

AHorsa · 13th October 2017, 12:56 PM

Hmm shit

Here are some more detailed images. Maybe that helps.

Best Regards
Andreas

kronckew · 13th October 2017, 01:00 PM

bigger than i thought

you probably have a museum or university in the rhineland with an antiquities dept. that may help.

Kubur · 14th October 2017, 03:31 PM

Your stone looks like volcanic tuff and confirms what i was saying.
Look at Moai in Easter island, you'll see big similar things.

Ian · 16th October 2017, 07:08 AM

Agree with Kubur--volcanic tuff. Easter Island sounds likely.

Ian.

colin henshaw · 16th October 2017, 12:11 PM

An interesting item - from the images it does appear to have some age ...

Any provenance ? The carvings to the topknot look like sun and moon representations, which may help in identification.

Athanase · 16th October 2017, 01:23 PM

Maybe Timor?

For me is not very old (1700 - Today)

AHorsa · 17th October 2017, 03:29 PM

Thanks for the replies! Will do research in those directions.

Sadly no provenance. Got it from an estate.
I am quite sure it is some gypsum like stone. For volcanic tuff it appears to be not porous enough...

Cheerio
Andreas

Sajen · 19th October 2017, 06:33 PM

Hi Andreas,

your stone carving is from Sumba Island, Indonesia. Be very careful with it because it's very brittle.
Have a look here: https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...ng&FORM=HDRSC2

Best regards,
Detlef

M ELEY · 19th October 2017, 09:15 PM

Wow! It looks like Detlef wins the trophy! Nice work! Now...the question is new or old?

Sajen · 20th October 2017, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Wow! It looks like Detlef wins the trophy! Nice work! Now...the question is new or old?

Hi Mark,

don't want to win any trophys!

Have handled some similar carvings by my trips to Indonesia. One, which I bought, get broken by transport to Germany, so my warning to Andreas.
Can't say something about the age but think that the chance is good that the carving is an old one.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 23rd October 2017, 01:50 PM

Do someone know where AHorsa is?

AHorsa · 23rd October 2017, 02:25 PM

He´s here!

Detlef, that´s great! Fits perfect. Also I found some with some structure on the head similar to mine.

Thanks a lot!

Best regards
Andreas

AHorsa · 27th October 2017, 03:29 PM

One more think concerning the age. Does anyone no if there is any chance to identify the approx age?

Cheerio
Andreas

10th October 2017, 09:11 AM	#1
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 367	Stone carved sculpture Hi Evereyone, I need help on this sculpture. It is 40cm high and obviously made from stone. I searched the web quite intensevely but can´t find any corresponding piece. Especially with this ball / knot on the head. Is it a contemporary decoration or an ancient piece. And if so, what culture? Celtic, pre-columbian, asian,...? Any help highly appreciated! Thanks and best regards Andreas Attached Images Last edited by AHorsa; 10th October 2017 at 09:39 AM.

13th October 2017, 12:37 PM	#8
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,181	that makes it worse! gypsum is mined pretty much world wide, it's the major component of plaster. alabaster statues are a hard form of gypsum, used for statues from prehistory in egypt and the middle east, iran, etc. thru modern times. heck, egypt even used it for mace heads. it was also used pretty much everywhere for the same reasons, easy to carve and fairly hard. germany is one of the top 22 producers 19th among the top 22 (UK is last there) Last edited by kronckew; 13th October 2017 at 01:00 PM.

13th October 2017, 12:56 PM	#9
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 367	Hmm shit Here are some more detailed images. Maybe that helps. Best Regards Andreas Attached Images

12th October 2017, 03:37 PM	#2
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 367	Hi Everyone, no one an idea? Even a direction for further research might be helpful. Best regards Andreas

12th October 2017, 04:00 PM	#3
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Maybe a Tiki from polynesia... Which kind of stone is it?

12th October 2017, 09:01 PM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,092	Hmm...the squat face, nose shape and expression strike me as Meso-American. Aztec? Incan? Just a guess, mind you. Perhaps a search for mythology involving a God/Goddess carrying the 'world' on his/her head?? Mark

12th October 2017, 09:33 PM	#5
Jon MB Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 143	I looked at the following: Irish, Neolithic period Turkey, Neolithic Pre-Colombian Olmec votive axe (shape) No solid leads yet. Trick is the initial narrowing down to a geographic area.

13th October 2017, 11:55 AM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,181	statues with hats and protruding top knots immediately hints at rapa nui (easter island) but those have rather longer faces. korea oddly enough has some islands with rounder faced simple prehistoric stone statues and hats with topknots or knobs of some sort. the americas, as mentioned have a variety of cultures other than aztec, mayan. inca. as basic as this statue is, with very limited features that can be pinned to a specific culture, you may have some difficulty finding out where it's from, possibly chemical analysis of the stone would be able to determine it's origin, tho it could have been carved after being transported and traded a fairly large distance, even over seas. trade routes even in the stone age are unbelievably complex.

13th October 2017, 12:00 PM	#7
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 367	Hi All, thanks for your replies and help!! As figured out, the problem as even to start with geographic area, as it potentially could come from anywhere. Maybe the material gives a hint: It seems to be Gypsum... Does that help? Cheerio Andreas

13th October 2017, 01:00 PM	#10
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,181	bigger than i thought you probably have a museum or university in the rhineland with an antiquities dept. that may help.

14th October 2017, 03:31 PM	#11
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Your stone looks like volcanic tuff and confirms what i was saying. Look at Moai in Easter island, you'll see big similar things.

16th October 2017, 07:08 AM	#12
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,197	Agree with Kubur--volcanic tuff. Easter Island sounds likely. Ian.

16th October 2017, 12:11 PM	#13
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	An interesting item - from the images it does appear to have some age ... Any provenance ? The carvings to the topknot look like sun and moon representations, which may help in identification.

16th October 2017, 01:23 PM	#14
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 408	Maybe Timor? For me is not very old (1700 - Today)

17th October 2017, 03:29 PM	#15
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 367	Thanks for the replies! Will do research in those directions. Sadly no provenance. Got it from an estate. I am quite sure it is some gypsum like stone. For volcanic tuff it appears to be not porous enough... Cheerio Andreas

19th October 2017, 06:33 PM	#16
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,769	Hi Andreas, your stone carving is from Sumba Island, Indonesia. Be very careful with it because it's very brittle. Have a look here: https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...ng&FORM=HDRSC2 Best regards, Detlef

19th October 2017, 09:15 PM	#17
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,092	Wow! It looks like Detlef wins the trophy! Nice work! Now...the question is new or old?

23rd October 2017, 01:50 PM	#19
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,769	Do someone know where AHorsa is?

23rd October 2017, 02:25 PM	#20
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 367	He´s here! Detlef, that´s great! Fits perfect. Also I found some with some structure on the head similar to mine. Thanks a lot! Best regards Andreas

27th October 2017, 03:29 PM	#21
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 367	One more think concerning the age. Does anyone no if there is any chance to identify the approx age? Cheerio Andreas