Indonesian, Scottish or Something Else ?

drac2k · 14th January 2020, 07:10 PM

I realize that the above title covers quite a range and so it is evident that I don't know what I have.
At first glance, I thought that it might be Indonesian, in the style of the pre-regulation kalewangs locally produced for the Dutch, imitating a European hunting trousse set, however after further inspection of the scabbard, I noticed what looks like "K.Rily 1818." Could this be European, rather than Indonesian?
The blade measures approx. 9" long and 1.5" at its widest, and .25" at the base of the spine. It is very sharp and it would be a very effective weapon as well as equally handy for field dressing game.
Could this be a crude Sgian Dubh?
I will leave it to the moderators to move this item to the European section if they feel it is better served there.

mross · 14th January 2020, 07:24 PM

Looks like it could be from Nepal. with the leather work and hilts. That sig is somewhat problematic though. Doesn't look Scottish to me.

drac2k · 14th January 2020, 07:39 PM

Thanks for your input; the horn handles didn't seem Scottish either.

Interested Party · 15th January 2020, 01:54 AM

Could it be Scandinavian or Sami? The stitching, molded sheath, ferrules, handle pattern if not material, and blade design seem to fit the Scandinavian pattern to me.

A. G. Maisey · 15th January 2020, 02:46 AM

Antique table cutlery is one of my side interests. I am very far from expert, but I do have more than a little antique cutlery and I use it every day.

Using the Hollander collection as a reference, I'm inclined to place this knife and fork as German or Dutch, possibly 18th century. I base this guess upon overall similarity in style, not upon an exactly similar example.

Robert · 15th January 2020, 03:30 AM

As for the signature/writing you might try doing a rubbing to see if anything legible might be produced. Other than that I have nothing else to add that has not already been suggested by others.

Best,
Robert

drac2k · 15th January 2020, 02:04 PM

All very thoughtful comments, thank you; maybe it belonged to William"Bill the Butcher," from the "Gangs of New York."

Henk · 15th January 2020, 03:18 PM

Can you read the writing or rub it? It could give a hint in wich direction we have to search.

drac2k · 15th January 2020, 05:43 PM

Yes, it looks like "K.Rily 1818."

LJ · 15th January 2020, 09:10 PM

From the photos, I read the end of the inscription as July 1873, but couldn't make out what is written before "July"

Rick · 16th January 2020, 12:58 AM

Any ideas as to the type of horn?
I have seen ram's horn snuff mulls that are scotch in origin.
Maybe the type of horn could give a clue.

drac2k · 16th January 2020, 06:37 PM

I was sure that it said Rily, but it appears(after taking the suggestion of doing a rub,etc.), that it is K. July 6, 1818(?);last number could be an 8.

14th January 2020, 07:10 PM	#1
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,232	Indonesian, Scottish or Something Else ? I realize that the above title covers quite a range and so it is evident that I don't know what I have. At first glance, I thought that it might be Indonesian, in the style of the pre-regulation kalewangs locally produced for the Dutch, imitating a European hunting trousse set, however after further inspection of the scabbard, I noticed what looks like "K.Rily 1818." Could this be European, rather than Indonesian? The blade measures approx. 9" long and 1.5" at its widest, and .25" at the base of the spine. It is very sharp and it would be a very effective weapon as well as equally handy for field dressing game. Could this be a crude Sgian Dubh? I will leave it to the moderators to move this item to the European section if they feel it is better served there. Attached Images

16th January 2020, 06:37 PM	#12
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,232	I was sure that it said Rily, but it appears(after taking the suggestion of doing a rub,etc.), that it is K. July 6, 1818(?);last number could be an 8. Attached Images

14th January 2020, 07:24 PM	#2
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	Looks like it could be from Nepal. with the leather work and hilts. That sig is somewhat problematic though. Doesn't look Scottish to me.

14th January 2020, 07:39 PM	#3
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,232	Thanks for your input; the horn handles didn't seem Scottish either.

15th January 2020, 01:54 AM	#4
Interested Party Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Eastern Sierra Posts: 478	Could it be Scandinavian or Sami? The stitching, molded sheath, ferrules, handle pattern if not material, and blade design seem to fit the Scandinavian pattern to me.

15th January 2020, 02:46 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,897	Antique table cutlery is one of my side interests. I am very far from expert, but I do have more than a little antique cutlery and I use it every day. Using the Hollander collection as a reference, I'm inclined to place this knife and fork as German or Dutch, possibly 18th century. I base this guess upon overall similarity in style, not upon an exactly similar example.

15th January 2020, 03:30 AM	#6
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	As for the signature/writing you might try doing a rubbing to see if anything legible might be produced. Other than that I have nothing else to add that has not already been suggested by others. Best, Robert

15th January 2020, 02:04 PM	#7
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,232	All very thoughtful comments, thank you; maybe it belonged to William"Bill the Butcher," from the "Gangs of New York."

15th January 2020, 03:18 PM	#8
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Can you read the writing or rub it? It could give a hint in wich direction we have to search.

15th January 2020, 05:43 PM	#9
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,232	Yes, it looks like "K.Rily 1818."

15th January 2020, 09:10 PM	#10
LJ Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 93	From the photos, I read the end of the inscription as July 1873, but couldn't make out what is written before "July"

16th January 2020, 12:58 AM	#11
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Any ideas as to the type of horn? I have seen ram's horn snuff mulls that are scotch in origin. Maybe the type of horn could give a clue.