Balinese or Javanese Dagger?

Lew · 4th April 2005, 08:02 PM

Hi Everyone

This auction just ended. It looks like some type of tombak dagger but I can't quite tell if it's Balinese or Javanese?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...522009563&rd=1

Lew

VANDOO · 4th April 2005, 09:55 PM

I WOULD SAY ITS NOT FROM BALI OR AT LEAST NOT IN BALINESE STYLE, JAVA OR MADURA PROBABLY. I HAVE ATTACHED A PICTURE OF WHAT APPEARS TO BE SOME SORT OF SPEAR WITH A BALI HILT FOR COMENTS.

Rick · 4th April 2005, 10:40 PM

Hi Lew , if the blade is smooth finished it might be an indication of Balinese origin .
Barry , once again I drool over your many treasures but all Balinese tombak can't be that fancy .

Bill M · 4th April 2005, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

I WOULD SAY ITS NOT FROM BALI OR AT LEAST NOT IN BALINESE STYLE, JAVA OR MADURA PROBABLY. I HAVE ATTACHED A PICTURE OF WHAT APPEARS TO BE SOME SORT OF SPEAR WITH A BALI HILT FOR COMENTS.

Almost bid on that piece at Skinners. Couldn't figure it out. Is that a Lombok hilt?

Did you get it Barry? Saw that you bid on a few lots.

VANDOO · 5th April 2005, 12:25 AM

IT WAS ON SKINNERS AUCTION I DIDN'T BID ON IT AND DIDN'T GET ANYTHING FROM THE AUCTION BUT SAVED THE PICTURE TO POST HERE FOR DISCUSSION AS IT WAS UNUSUAL. THE HANDLE LOOKS LIKE ONE OF THE BALINESE TYPES WITH HAIR STICKING OUT, WE DISCUSSED THEM IN A OLD THREAD AND I HAVE ONLY SEEN THEM COMING OUT OF BALI.
I WISH I DID HAVE THAT ONE RICK BUT THERE WERE OTHER ITEMS AT THE AUCTION THAT WERE MORE ATTRACTIVE TO ME, IT WOULD APPEAR THAT I COLLECT PICTURES OF WEAPONS MOSTLY THESE DAYS BUT KEEP TRYING AND DO GET LUCKY OCCASIONALY.

Rick · 5th April 2005, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

I WISH I DID HAVE THAT ONE RICK BUT THERE WERE OTHER ITEMS AT THE AUCTION THAT WERE MORE ATTRACTIVE TO ME, IT WOULD APPEAR THAT I COLLECT PICTURES OF WEAPONS MOSTLY THESE DAYS BUT KEEP TRYING AND DO GET LUCKY OCCASIONALY.

That makes two of us Barry . <sigh>

Bill M · 5th April 2005, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

IT WAS ON SKINNERS AUCTION I DIDN'T BID ON IT AND DIDN'T GET ANYTHING FROM THE AUCTION BUT SAVED THE PICTURE TO POST HERE FOR DISCUSSION AS IT WAS UNUSUAL. THE HANDLE LOOKS LIKE ONE OF THE BALINESE TYPES WITH HAIR STICKING OUT, WE DISCUSSED THEM IN A OLD THREAD AND I HAVE ONLY SEEN THEM COMING OUT OF BALI.
I WISH I DID HAVE THAT ONE RICK BUT THERE WERE OTHER ITEMS AT THE AUCTION THAT WERE MORE ATTRACTIVE TO ME, IT WOULD APPEAR THAT I COLLECT PICTURES OF WEAPONS MOSTLY THESE DAYS BUT KEEP TRYING AND DO GET LUCKY OCCASIONALY.

In this case you were right on. The other side of the handle had a big piece missing. Many of the pieces were damaged. There was a Balato sword (the one without the ball) that had the handle completely broken off. Laying beside the sword on the table with a lot of other pieces.

There was a nice Balinese keris with an ivory wrongko that was completely apart. Wrongko over there, pendok beside it and blade with handle beside it. I asked the workers why they left it that way and they said they did not know how it should be out together.

They did not display the actual item when the auctioneer was callling, just a picture on a monitor.

I would venture to say that there may be some unhappy people when they get their items. Hope they do a good job of packing and shipping mine. I am a bit apprehensive.

Let me hasten to say that there were many nice ivory carvings that they took very good care to preserve. The good stuff was behind glass. You had to ask to handle a piece and there were a couple of quiet guys in suits with earpieces and the curly wires going down into their collars, watching.

It was mainly the "tribal" pieces that were piled on tables. They were not that expert in 'tribal.' For instance the Skinner expert thought that the Batak were from Borneo. But his specialty was probably other areas, Don't see why he tried to pretend to know everything. But I guess that is how it is.

All in all Skinner is a good auction house, but this auction was for Asian art, not edged weapons. Saw a cup carved from a rhino horn bring $37,500.

Rick · 5th April 2005, 02:08 AM

Valuable information Bill .
Thanks .

Bill · 5th April 2005, 02:19 AM

Only been to one auction. You would think that they would list & show any damage. Add on the 22% + shipping, & I think it would be hard to find any deals. Tried to bid on a barong at a auction house in Howland, & I could not even get any of the recommended shippers to give me a quote ahead of the time. Not at all impressed with the auction houses. The one I went to had some nice Moro Kris not posted on ebay, one went for $700, likely would of sold for half on ebay. The best Moro piece, a barong & Visayan sword wasn't bid on by anyone present, but by members of this forum. I'm happy with what I paid for them, but would not bid that high if I could not inspect. The auction houses have a diclaimer for just about everything, & they still demand thier high cut. Would have liked to been to that one in Boston though, it sure had some interesting pieces.

Henk · 5th April 2005, 09:50 PM

In my opinion it is a javanese tombak. I'm quite sure, but would like to see some close ups of the blade. Nice mounting, I'm rather sure it is javanese too. A maduran tombak-mounting is a bit different.

Lew · 5th April 2005, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henk

In my opinion it is a javanese tombak. I'm quite sure, but would like to see some close ups of the blade. Nice mounting, I'm rather sure it is javanese too. A maduran tombak-mounting is a bit different.

Thanks for the feedback guys I will post some better pics as soon as I can.

Lew

4th April 2005, 08:02 PM	#1
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Balinese or Javanese Dagger? Hi Everyone This auction just ended. It looks like some type of tombak dagger but I can't quite tell if it's Balinese or Javanese? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...522009563&rd=1 Lew

4th April 2005, 09:55 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I WOULD SAY ITS NOT FROM BALI OR AT LEAST NOT IN BALINESE STYLE, JAVA OR MADURA PROBABLY. I HAVE ATTACHED A PICTURE OF WHAT APPEARS TO BE SOME SORT OF SPEAR WITH A BALI HILT FOR COMENTS. Attached Images

4th April 2005, 10:40 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	Hi Lew , if the blade is smooth finished it might be an indication of Balinese origin . Barry , once again I drool over your many treasures but all Balinese tombak can't be that fancy .

5th April 2005, 12:25 AM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	IT WAS ON SKINNERS AUCTION I DIDN'T BID ON IT AND DIDN'T GET ANYTHING FROM THE AUCTION BUT SAVED THE PICTURE TO POST HERE FOR DISCUSSION AS IT WAS UNUSUAL. THE HANDLE LOOKS LIKE ONE OF THE BALINESE TYPES WITH HAIR STICKING OUT, WE DISCUSSED THEM IN A OLD THREAD AND I HAVE ONLY SEEN THEM COMING OUT OF BALI. I WISH I DID HAVE THAT ONE RICK BUT THERE WERE OTHER ITEMS AT THE AUCTION THAT WERE MORE ATTRACTIVE TO ME, IT WOULD APPEAR THAT I COLLECT PICTURES OF WEAPONS MOSTLY THESE DAYS BUT KEEP TRYING AND DO GET LUCKY OCCASIONALY.

5th April 2005, 02:08 AM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	Valuable information Bill . Thanks .

5th April 2005, 02:19 AM	#9
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Only been to one auction. You would think that they would list & show any damage. Add on the 22% + shipping, & I think it would be hard to find any deals. Tried to bid on a barong at a auction house in Howland, & I could not even get any of the recommended shippers to give me a quote ahead of the time. Not at all impressed with the auction houses. The one I went to had some nice Moro Kris not posted on ebay, one went for $700, likely would of sold for half on ebay. The best Moro piece, a barong & Visayan sword wasn't bid on by anyone present, but by members of this forum. I'm happy with what I paid for them, but would not bid that high if I could not inspect. The auction houses have a diclaimer for just about everything, & they still demand thier high cut. Would have liked to been to that one in Boston though, it sure had some interesting pieces.

5th April 2005, 09:50 PM	#10
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	In my opinion it is a javanese tombak. I'm quite sure, but would like to see some close ups of the blade. Nice mounting, I'm rather sure it is javanese too. A maduran tombak-mounting is a bit different.