longobard axe

tom hyle · 12th June 2011, 01:44 AM

Does anyone have any information as to the identity/construction/apperance of the German migration era "longo-bard" axe; ie long-bearded axe? I envision a long handled axe with a very long cutting edge similar to a bardiche or Lake Haber axe and probably related, possibly by descent, to long-bladed turf axes, but this is speculation much more vague than my equation of halberd (hall beard=hall axe=house axe) as a meat cleaver on a stick. But I've seen a lot of early halberds, with their rectangular blades, their heavy edges, and their commonly tanged construction. Does anyone have pictures of objects that are thought to be long-beard axes?
I wonder if Billman reads this forum? I suspect he might have something to say.
BTW, the 18th century dress/show/guard "halberds" seem to me to be largely fairly clearly pole axes, not anything I'd recognize as a halberd. A halberd on a shorter stick with a thrusting point and a rectangular blade persisted in Northern and central Europe into modern times as a travelling axe, similar in use though not appearance to those Polish(etc.) axes with the lil mountain climbing spear on the butt, but I'm not sure what they're called.

kisak · 13th June 2011, 06:01 PM

When talking about things related to Vikings and the Swedish iron age a bearded axe would look rather like this one. I don't know what the longobards used, but it seems plausible to me that their "long bearded" axes would be closer to this form than early halberds.

(This particular axehead was found on Gotland, and is dated to the Vendel period. For full details see http://mis.historiska.se/mis/sok/bild.asp?uid=224116 )

mrwizard · 13th June 2011, 07:02 PM

I tried to find some references that connect the longobards with long-bearded axes. I didn't find any (what actually doesn't mean much).
What i did find was the article "Langobarden" in "Reallexikon der germanischen Altertumskunde". Available online here:
http://www.archive.org/stream/realle...e/122/mode/2up

There it is noted that the origin of the longobards based on a long bearded axe is extremely unlikely. (I don't want to translate the lengthy reasoning behind this). This thesis is substantiated by archeological findings that at langobardian burial sites mostly swords, lances, arrowheads, and shields were found .

Best Regards,
Thilo

tom hyle · 14th June 2011, 12:43 AM

I don't believe that the weapon types for which these tribes were named were particular to them in any way. Certainly the spear people (Danes, Gots, Frises) did not seem to use spears more than anyone else. Angled tip saxes and fracisca axes were not particular to the tribes that bore their name, and those tribes seem to have used the same weapons as other German tribes. Maybe it's got to do with which tribe originated a particular weapon type; I don't know.
I am not wondering about the longobard people or the details of their association to the longobard axe; I'm just wondering if there's an established idea or anyone's ideas of what, specifically, this weapon was.

mrwizard · 14th June 2011, 01:58 PM

Oh sorry, i thought that you were looking for a battle axe directly associated with the Longobards. If you are just looking for designs of migration-period long bearded axes i found this very nice example associated with the Franks:
http://www.myseum.de/index.php?optio...w_ad&adid=2408

btw. i didn't include the picture directly because of potential copyright issues.

Edit: I just discovered that i can link to categories within the myseum site. All these axes are asssociated the the migration period:
http://www.myseum.de/index.php?optio...gory&catid=188

Best Regards,
Thilo

tom hyle · 14th June 2011, 03:32 PM

Thank you!

12th June 2011, 01:44 AM	#1
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	longobard axe Does anyone have any information as to the identity/construction/apperance of the German migration era "longo-bard" axe; ie long-bearded axe? I envision a long handled axe with a very long cutting edge similar to a bardiche or Lake Haber axe and probably related, possibly by descent, to long-bladed turf axes, but this is speculation much more vague than my equation of halberd (hall beard=hall axe=house axe) as a meat cleaver on a stick. But I've seen a lot of early halberds, with their rectangular blades, their heavy edges, and their commonly tanged construction. Does anyone have pictures of objects that are thought to be long-beard axes? I wonder if Billman reads this forum? I suspect he might have something to say. BTW, the 18th century dress/show/guard "halberds" seem to me to be largely fairly clearly pole axes, not anything I'd recognize as a halberd. A halberd on a shorter stick with a thrusting point and a rectangular blade persisted in Northern and central Europe into modern times as a travelling axe, similar in use though not appearance to those Polish(etc.) axes with the lil mountain climbing spear on the butt, but I'm not sure what they're called.

13th June 2011, 06:01 PM	#2
kisak Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Stockholm Posts: 182	When talking about things related to Vikings and the Swedish iron age a bearded axe would look rather like this one. I don't know what the longobards used, but it seems plausible to me that their "long bearded" axes would be closer to this form than early halberds. (This particular axehead was found on Gotland, and is dated to the Vendel period. For full details see http://mis.historiska.se/mis/sok/bild.asp?uid=224116 ) Attached Images

13th June 2011, 07:02 PM	#3
mrwizard Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Dortmund, Germany Posts: 102	I tried to find some references that connect the longobards with long-bearded axes. I didn't find any (what actually doesn't mean much). What i did find was the article "Langobarden" in "Reallexikon der germanischen Altertumskunde". Available online here: http://www.archive.org/stream/realle...e/122/mode/2up There it is noted that the origin of the longobards based on a long bearded axe is extremely unlikely. (I don't want to translate the lengthy reasoning behind this). This thesis is substantiated by archeological findings that at langobardian burial sites mostly swords, lances, arrowheads, and shields were found . Best Regards, Thilo

14th June 2011, 12:43 AM	#4
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	I don't believe that the weapon types for which these tribes were named were particular to them in any way. Certainly the spear people (Danes, Gots, Frises) did not seem to use spears more than anyone else. Angled tip saxes and fracisca axes were not particular to the tribes that bore their name, and those tribes seem to have used the same weapons as other German tribes. Maybe it's got to do with which tribe originated a particular weapon type; I don't know. I am not wondering about the longobard people or the details of their association to the longobard axe; I'm just wondering if there's an established idea or anyone's ideas of what, specifically, this weapon was.

14th June 2011, 01:58 PM	#5
mrwizard Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Dortmund, Germany Posts: 102	Oh sorry, i thought that you were looking for a battle axe directly associated with the Longobards. If you are just looking for designs of migration-period long bearded axes i found this very nice example associated with the Franks: http://www.myseum.de/index.php?optio...w_ad&adid=2408 btw. i didn't include the picture directly because of potential copyright issues. Edit: I just discovered that i can link to categories within the myseum site. All these axes are asssociated the the migration period: http://www.myseum.de/index.php?optio...gory&catid=188 Best Regards, Thilo

14th June 2011, 03:32 PM	#6
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Thank you!