And Another Colonial Spanish Sword;Mexican or Philippine ?

drac2k · 9th February 2019, 09:38 PM

Another Short Sword of Colonial Spanish design;23" long. My first thought was Colonial Mexican, but I could be persuaded that it is Philippine.

Jim McDougall · 9th February 2019, 09:52 PM

It seems to me that Levine (1985) always considered these 'Central American' dirks, but given the scope of the 'Spanish Main' it seems open to many regional possibilities. The many forms of Spanish colonial edged weapons we have discussed here over the years seem to have numerous possible locations of use given the diffusion over these routes.

Sajen · 9th February 2019, 10:24 PM

Hello Drac2k,

not Philippine IMHO. Leather embossing is very different from what I've seen until now from the Philippines and the ring at the guard I've only seen by South American blades.

Regards,
Detlef

Jim McDougall · 9th February 2019, 11:52 PM

Drac2, in looking at this further, I think your Mexican inclination is well placed in considering the styling of this scabbard which resembles scabbards seen on Mexican swords through the 19th c., While this type weapon is as noted thought to be Central American its form would certainly not be confined to those regions.
The brass spacers in the grip are also something I have seen in Mexican swords in separating grip materials in a stacked kind of appearance. This style is also seen in grips on some 'corvo' from Chile.

drac2k · 10th February 2019, 06:28 AM

Thank you both for your observations; I too am inclined to think it could be Mexican or Central American.

kronckew · 10th February 2019, 11:30 AM

I seem to recall some discussion about my espada, posted earlier, being So. American & possibly Brazilian.

Ian · 10th February 2019, 01:51 PM

Hi drac.

Highly atypical of Spanish-Filipino styles in regard to the hilt with a finger loop, and the tooled leather scabbard is also atypical of Filipino work. I agree with the comments of Detlef and others.

Ian

PS. Your esparda looks Mexican or Central American to me, mainly on the basis of the tooled leather scabbard and rondel. (Although also found in various parts of S America also).

drac2k · 10th February 2019, 06:06 PM

I think that we are now all in agreement that the blade is Mexican or Central American and Jim did bring out an interesting point about the handle resembling that of the corvo knife from Chile, I believe that I was wrong to attribute it as being Colonial Mexican.
The blade has the consistency of the machetes that were mass produced for the South American market by Collins and Weyersberg Hermanos in the 1870s and onward and since Mexico gained her independence from Spain in 1821, I should state that the sword design was Colonial Spanish as opposed to being pre-1821, Colonial Mexican.

9th February 2019, 09:38 PM	#1
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,230	And Another Colonial Spanish Sword;Mexican or Philippine ? Another Short Sword of Colonial Spanish design;23" long. My first thought was Colonial Mexican, but I could be persuaded that it is Philippine. Attached Images

10th February 2019, 11:30 AM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	I seem to recall some discussion about my espada, posted earlier, being So. American & possibly Brazilian. Attached Images

9th February 2019, 09:52 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	It seems to me that Levine (1985) always considered these 'Central American' dirks, but given the scope of the 'Spanish Main' it seems open to many regional possibilities. The many forms of Spanish colonial edged weapons we have discussed here over the years seem to have numerous possible locations of use given the diffusion over these routes.

9th February 2019, 10:24 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,779	Hello Drac2k, not Philippine IMHO. Leather embossing is very different from what I've seen until now from the Philippines and the ring at the guard I've only seen by South American blades. Regards, Detlef

9th February 2019, 11:52 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	Drac2, in looking at this further, I think your Mexican inclination is well placed in considering the styling of this scabbard which resembles scabbards seen on Mexican swords through the 19th c., While this type weapon is as noted thought to be Central American its form would certainly not be confined to those regions. The brass spacers in the grip are also something I have seen in Mexican swords in separating grip materials in a stacked kind of appearance. This style is also seen in grips on some 'corvo' from Chile.

10th February 2019, 06:28 AM	#5
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,230	Thank you both for your observations; I too am inclined to think it could be Mexican or Central American.

10th February 2019, 01:51 PM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Hi drac. Highly atypical of Spanish-Filipino styles in regard to the hilt with a finger loop, and the tooled leather scabbard is also atypical of Filipino work. I agree with the comments of Detlef and others. Ian PS. Your esparda looks Mexican or Central American to me, mainly on the basis of the tooled leather scabbard and rondel. (Although also found in various parts of S America also).

10th February 2019, 06:06 PM	#8
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,230	I think that we are now all in agreement that the blade is Mexican or Central American and Jim did bring out an interesting point about the handle resembling that of the corvo knife from Chile, I believe that I was wrong to attribute it as being Colonial Mexican. The blade has the consistency of the machetes that were mass produced for the South American market by Collins and Weyersberg Hermanos in the 1870s and onward and since Mexico gained her independence from Spain in 1821, I should state that the sword design was Colonial Spanish as opposed to being pre-1821, Colonial Mexican.