Katar for comment

kronckew · 27th April 2015, 08:55 AM

thanks for any info on this. i've always wanted one, but missed out on auctions till now. got this reasonably cheaply

from a dealer in the middle east.

billed as:
Antique Katar Dagger South India 17th c
Interesting South Indian Katar dagger . Early 17th century.
General dimensions:
505 mm – Total Length
330 mm – Blade's length
30 mm - Handle's Width

note: queried him on the handle width, it's larger. dealer sent me pics of him holding it by the bar grips, which he says are 70mm.

Battara · 27th April 2015, 11:04 PM

Interesting piece. Many of these from South India have this type of blade.

ashoka · 28th April 2015, 08:16 AM

maybe a cut down rapier blade. A shame about the welding repairs to the blade mounts though

David R · 28th April 2015, 08:29 AM

If you got it at a reasonable price then you were lucky indeed. These seem to have gone up in price in leaps and bounds, and that's when they come up for sale at all. If the grip is wide enough to be held, then that is a double plus!

kronckew · 28th April 2015, 08:43 AM

he has a number of similar ones on offer, i got mine for about half what the others are starting at. can't discuss those tho.

top 2 in-hand photos from vendor - he may, of course have small hands

p.s. - vendors/forumites - always best to show an in-hand photo for scale.

bottom, edge on view of blade mounts

Jens Nordlunde · 28th April 2015, 01:11 PM

The length of the cross bars can wary, but not very much.
I have one katar where the cross bars are 6 cm, one where they are 8 cm, but the rest are 7 to 7.5 cm.
Should I use a katar the cross bars would have to be 10 cm.
Have a look at this thread.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...bone+structure

kronckew · 7th May 2015, 09:47 AM

she's here. weighing in at 554 grams (1.22 lb. or 19.5 oz.)

75mm across the bars inside & a tight fit for my hand for all 4 fingers, better if i leave the pinky out

the red rust in the photos not evident, even in sunlight, i suspect the vendor brass brushed it and oiled it before shipping. no evidence of welding i can see except for where the mounts join the main bar & that looks like it was made that way. the filleted corners of the side bars also smooth and look like they've always been there. the blade while lightly pitted looks a fully functional broken off sword tip. what appered to be 'cracks' in the mounts are not & no sign of welding, just some sort of worn figurine or decoration & well worn rivets.

all in all seems a nice old gal - a bit tired but still up for a good go.

ashoka · 7th May 2015, 08:40 PM

nice early Katar, welding areas circled. They've been blobbed and ground down a bit to make them less obvious, at least that's what it looks like from these photos.

Kubur · 7th May 2015, 10:01 PM

I totaly agree with Stefan.
Now what does it mean?
- A weakness of the joint between the old German blade and the Indian hilt?
- Or a fake?
I just ask because I always wondered about this kind of katar...

kronckew · 7th May 2015, 10:27 PM

i see the areas mentioned- not as obvious when you actually see it under a daylight light. oddly, in the inside of the bowed area, which is chequered, it looks like there is an area in the centre about 10mmx5mm where it is polished, but chequered and slightly raised almost like a slot where a stub of blade tang was peened (or hammer welded) over & polished & chequered over. in any case the weld repair was a long time ago.

ashoka · 8th May 2015, 11:05 AM

Just a common spot of weakness at the thinnest point after centuries of rusting. Not a bad way of repairing it really, if repair is what you're after. Lots of things surface in bad condition especially katars, and unrepaired would make it harder for the Indian dealers to sell to most collectors. I also reckon the welding at the base of the mount is new within the last few years. The stub at the back of the front bar is probably where tangs from the blade mounts went through and were peened over. There was no welding used originally at the front.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

I totaly agree with Stefan.
Now what does it mean?
- A weakness of the joint between the old German blade and the Indian hilt?
- Or a fake?
I just ask because I always wondered about this kind of katar...

27th April 2015, 08:55 AM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,180	Katar for comment thanks for any info on this. i've always wanted one, but missed out on auctions till now. got this reasonably cheaply from a dealer in the middle east. billed as: Antique Katar Dagger South India 17th c Interesting South Indian Katar dagger . Early 17th century. General dimensions: 505 mm – Total Length 330 mm – Blade's length 30 mm - Handle's Width note: queried him on the handle width, it's larger. dealer sent me pics of him holding it by the bar grips, which he says are 70mm. Attached Images

28th April 2015, 08:43 AM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,180	he has a number of similar ones on offer, i got mine for about half what the others are starting at. can't discuss those tho. top 2 in-hand photos from vendor - he may, of course have small hands p.s. - vendors/forumites - always best to show an in-hand photo for scale. bottom, edge on view of blade mounts Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 28th April 2015 at 09:03 AM.

28th April 2015, 01:11 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	The length of the cross bars can wary, but not very much. I have one katar where the cross bars are 6 cm, one where they are 8 cm, but the rest are 7 to 7.5 cm. Should I use a katar the cross bars would have to be 10 cm. Have a look at this thread. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...bone+structure Last edited by Jens Nordlunde; 28th April 2015 at 04:30 PM.

7th May 2015, 08:40 PM	#8
ashoka Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 61	nice early Katar, welding areas circled. They've been blobbed and ground down a bit to make them less obvious, at least that's what it looks like from these photos. Attached Images

7th May 2015, 10:27 PM	#10
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,180	i see the areas mentioned- not as obvious when you actually see it under a daylight light. oddly, in the inside of the bowed area, which is chequered, it looks like there is an area in the centre about 10mmx5mm where it is polished, but chequered and slightly raised almost like a slot where a stub of blade tang was peened (or hammer welded) over & polished & chequered over. in any case the weld repair was a long time ago. Attached Images

27th April 2015, 11:04 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Interesting piece. Many of these from South India have this type of blade.

28th April 2015, 08:16 AM	#3
ashoka Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 61	maybe a cut down rapier blade. A shame about the welding repairs to the blade mounts though

28th April 2015, 08:29 AM	#4
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,079	If you got it at a reasonable price then you were lucky indeed. These seem to have gone up in price in leaps and bounds, and that's when they come up for sale at all. If the grip is wide enough to be held, then that is a double plus!

7th May 2015, 09:47 AM	#7
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,180	she's here. weighing in at 554 grams (1.22 lb. or 19.5 oz.) 75mm across the bars inside & a tight fit for my hand for all 4 fingers, better if i leave the pinky out the red rust in the photos not evident, even in sunlight, i suspect the vendor brass brushed it and oiled it before shipping. no evidence of welding i can see except for where the mounts join the main bar & that looks like it was made that way. the filleted corners of the side bars also smooth and look like they've always been there. the blade while lightly pitted looks a fully functional broken off sword tip. what appered to be 'cracks' in the mounts are not & no sign of welding, just some sort of worn figurine or decoration & well worn rivets. all in all seems a nice old gal - a bit tired but still up for a good go.

7th May 2015, 10:01 PM	#9
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	I totaly agree with Stefan. Now what does it mean? - A weakness of the joint between the old German blade and the Indian hilt? - Or a fake? I just ask because I always wondered about this kind of katar...