uyghur knives?

[josh stout]

After the horrendous Chinese train station attack by what people assumed to be Uighurs, I wondered about their weapons. The attackers were described as dressed in black from head to toe with only the eyes showing, and included at least two women. They carried what was described a "knives as long as a man's arm and a couple of inches wide." What were these "knives"? Google image search shows some shiny items that look like fancy hunting knives, but nothing on the scale described. Perhaps they were the same thing but bigger? Certainly the accounts seem to indicate a single edged chopping weapon.
Please forgive me for what sounds like morbid curiosity, but contemporary accounts of ethnic groups with long standing weapons traditions tend to focus on gory details but not details of the weapons. In this country, when a mass shooting occurs, we know exactly which version of the AR15 was used, but from Africa to Assam, blade wielding mobs are usually described as carrying out "machete" attacks. If we knew what weapons were used, we would know much more about what group was involved, their connection to traditional culture, and their access to modern construction techniques.
Thanks,
Josh

[blue lander]

According to AP:

"I saw two attackers, both men, one with a watermelon knife and the other with a fruit knife. They were running and chopping whoever they could."

[Andrew]

Let's make sure we stay on Josh's topic (Uyghur weapons) and not slide into socio-political discussion, thus ensuring this thread remains open.

[Jim McDougall]

This is a fascinating and brilliantly posed question by Josh. Naturally most modern news accounts of current events noting the relatively unusual use of edged weapons in such actions note same typically in rather collective terms. One thing I have always noticed in contemporary narratives on historically significant events is that edged weapons are seldom described other than in general terms. I often noticed even in military history references there is often emphasis on artillery and firearms in detail, but any type of sword is either 'curved or straight' if any detail given.

While in many cultures ethnographically there are significantly key edged weapons, these are seldom addressed by the terms they are known by. In one news account of these kinds of events in Saharan regions many years ago I do recall a tribal chieftain (possibly Tuareg) who expressed in an interview, 'we raised our 'takoubas'' referring to their taking action.

Another case in point is the collective use of the relatively modern term 'machete' which describes of course heavy bladed chopping edged weapons used typically in tropical climate regions for cutting through jungle foliage. Over the years, most often in news events in Africa of course, the gruesome use of edged weapons typically refer to machetes, though these may have been various types of indigenous weapons.

In this instance, even beyond the collective and broadly used terms for many weapon forms, are the terms used in the same manner for ethnic groups such as the Uyghurs. The term is known in somewhat ancient records and in more modern times refers typically to Muslim peoples of the Xinjiang regions in western China, however it has been noted that for many centuries these people had no specific name (Lattimore, 1973).
The Uyghur classification was apparently adopted by Turkic Muslims primarily from Tarim basin at the 1921 conference at Tashkent, according to a reference noted in a 'Wiki' entry, which I have used for convenience for some details.

I suppose these factors in using news items for detail reveal the potential caveats in such details if they were indeed included, however they do serve well as benchmarks for the brilliantly posed and pertinent question Josh has set forth here.

Having noted that, I would very much second Andrew's most pertinent caveat here as well, considering the stream of volatile events unfolding as we speak.

[spiral]

Chinese Water Melon knives are like long square dha in profile & certainly match the description. There also thin, springy & sharp

They have for a long time been triad/tong favorites at least in Hong Kong, along with the heavier shorter meat cleavers for the so called "chopping" attacks.

spiral

[AJ1356]

I am guessing they used everyday fruit vendor knives or what not. The Uyghurs are basically Central Asian Muslims whose weapon would be the same or could resemble those of Afghanistan, the stans of Central Asia and Mongolia, with some Chines influence. I was reading something else, but had mentions of when Afghan King Ahmad Shah was trying to rally Muslim support to aid the besieged Ughurs and save them from the Qing invasion in the late 1700's. The people there are Turkic in origin and the the old folks mention the area calling it Turkistan e Sharqi (Eastern Turkistan).

[TVV]

Here is a link to a threat that discussed Uyghur knives, and especially the modern productions from Yangisar.

http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread...ghlight=uyghur

Ariel posted a link to a Russian knives forum, where there is a very long threat on these with a lot of pictures even for those who cannot read Russian.

Teodor

[spiral]

I dare say it will come out in the wash, but I bet they used the cheapest mass production factory melon choppers in a bulk buy from a dime store... not a traditional hand crafted or styled ethnic product....

Spiral

[kronckew]

hard to see, but one of the knives being bagged into evidence at the grip end:


appear to be about 18+ in. blades - news mentions 50-60cm. appear single edged, have a fuller and a slightly upswept tip:

Link to source video (last video at bottom of article)

[spiral]

Interesting Kronckew .

Heres another one...From Chinese social media...

Looks like a Chinese knock off of a Japanese sword.

Spiral

[josh stout]

I appreciate the work that went into the responses. It is unfortunate that we don't have better photos of the weapons involved given the large number of truly abhorrent photos of bloody victims. As far as I can tell, the knives used were indeed a random collection ranging from kitchen utensils to what is perhaps a wallhanger. I still think that with better photos we could tell a lot about the people who commit such atrocities. As we know, weapons can tell us much about the group that wields them, and we could probably deduce how well funded they were, and if they were a local group. The one somewhat clear photo of a “Chinese katana knockoff” has some interesting characteristics that separate it from the usual copies of Japanese things. It appears that it may be local construction, and if so, someone with a knowing eye would likely be able to narrow it down to a few local makers.

And thanks to everyone for staying on topic and not getting the post locked.
Josh

[Jim McDougall]

I very much agree Josh, and again interestingly posed question. Its good to see responses carried out without unnecessary editorial and kept on topic. Nicely done gentlemen.

[mross]

Originally Posted by spiral

I dare say it will come out in the wash, but I bet they used the cheapest mass production factory melon choppers in a bulk buy from a dime store... not a traditional hand crafted or styled ethnic product....

Spiral

I tend to agree with spiral on this one. From a USA perspective the most used knife in a murder is the ubiquitous kitchen knife. And from several knife magazine discussions on most used knife in war? The mess kit knife! People are people and they tend to use what's at hand.