Moro Spear???..or not?? Opinions sought

[CharlesS]

Here is a nice Filipino spear I recently picked up. It is just over 7ft., though my pics concentrate on the spearhead.

At first glance it seems to say Moro "budiak", and features a nice, clear lamination pattern, but there are some features to the bolster and ferrule that are making me second guess its Moro origin. Didn't the Bogobo and T'boli use similar types??

Comments, opinions, and info welcomed.

Thanks!

[Rick]

Found this Charles .
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=bagobo+spear

[CharlesS]

Thanks Rick. I would have expected to see brass work on Bogobo or T'boli pieces.

Somehow, though I did not want to be too quick to put a "Moro" stamp on mine.

Thanks again!

[Bill M]

Moro ferules are different. Have you tried doing a little cleaning on the brass? I had one that really looked brass or bronze, but it was some kind of varnish or shellac that had been on it a very long time. When I did some cleaning (paint remover) a really nice silver came through.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Thanks Rick. I would have expected to see brass work on Bogobo or T'boli pieces.

Somehow, though I did not want to be too quick to put a "Moro" stamp on mine.

Thanks again!

I can understand that; the ferrule seems more Indonesian in flavor .

[CharlesS]

Thanks guys. The ferrule is silver. The flash may be creating a "sepia" tone making it look brass.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Thanks guys. The ferrule is silver. The flash may be creating a "sepia" tone making it look brass.

Thought so. Good! Nice spear BTW anyway you look at it.

[Battara]

I had a Moro budiak spear liked this one including the ferrule style only made of brass/bronze. I have seen old pictures of Moros (Maguindanao) with ones just like this in style. This is not lumad IMHO but Moro.

[CharlesS]

Thanks Battara! Was waiting to get your thoughts.

[Nonoy Tan]

Yes, Moro.

Maguindanao? I am unsure.

[Nonoy Tan]

Yes, could be Maguindanao! or anywhere in North and South Cotabato IMHO.

[CharlesS]

Battara,

Would you be kind enough to post one of those old pics if you can find one.

Thanks!

[VVV]

I bought this nice Budiak from Battara on the swap-forum some time ago.

Michael

[Battara]

Found the picture - it is on p. 194 in A Philippines Album . The spear is on the left and the style of textiles are Maguindanao I am told. The caption does read that the picture is from Mindanao (please ignore the false hand tinted color).

VVV - I suspect that yours might also be Maguindanao.

[Spunjer]

jose, i'm pretty sure they're maranao. got a picture of datu pedro and datu mundas, both maranao. i could be mistaken, but the pic you provided is that of datu mundas and his retainers:





if nothing else, the 'do of the boy carrying the spear in your pic is straight up maranao. here's a nice group pic of the the lake moros. notice the buns:

[Spunjer]

btw, charles, yup, that's a moro budjak..

[Battara]

Originally Posted by Spunjer

jose, i'm pretty sure they're maranao. got a picture of datu pedro and datu mundas, both maranao. i could be mistaken, but the pic you provided is that of datu mundas and his retainers:

Nope, good catch. I meant to say Maranao. Salamat Ron.

What I mean to say for clarity is that Charles and VVV's spears are Maranao.

[CharlesS]

Battara,

What are the specific features that denote its origins....the bulbous, rather then banded, nature of the ferrule??

This would be very helpful in the future.

[Battara]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Battara,

What are the specific features that denote its origins....the bulbous, rather then banded, nature of the ferrule??

This would be very helpful in the future.

I would say yes. I need to go back to my research, but for now I am inclined to say that the banded "bamboo" looking ferrule sleeve is more Sulu. Bulbs at the top and bottom of the sleeve would be Maranao as far as I can tell. The picture has Maranao textiles with it.

BTW - great spear - with silver no less......

Ron - great pictures, especially of the datus with the kids holding the kris and kampilan. Thanks again

[Nonoy Tan]

I stand corrected. Maranaw indeed.

Just shows how little I know about the subject

To add more confusion, here are a few more spears which also need identification. Sorry for the bad photos.

[migueldiaz]

The pics below are from Philippine Picture Postcards 1900-1920.

You can barely discern the features of the spears shown though.

[migueldiaz]

Here's some more pics of Moro spears.

They all still show the spears from afar, as I can't find pics with close-up shots of the spearhead. Anyways ...

[Rick]

One is probably not Moro ...
May as well add them anyway .

[CharlesS]

Great pics and more great examples.

Rick I have another budiak practically identical to your example on the right.

regarding some of the old photos....certainly seems like an odd way to carry spears....by the blade. I wonder if blade down translated into "not at war....no threat"???

In the mock combat pics the way the spears are carried and used seems awkward as well.

[kino]

In the mock combat pics the way the spears are carried and used seems awkward as well

It would seem like it was used for close combat not for throwing.

[Spunjer]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Great pics and more great examples.

Rick I have another budiak practically identical to your example on the right.

regarding some of the old photos....certainly seems like an odd way to carry spears....by the blade. I wonder if blade down translated into "not at war....no threat"???

In the mock combat pics the way the spears are carried and used seems awkward as well.

does seem awkward but actually that's where the focal point is.


although not all are made for throwing, and i'm sure you're familiar with this beauty, charles:





ferrule was entirely made out of weaved brass wires and metal strip (yep, that's human hair tied near the base).






to put much dedication on something like this, i'm pretty sure i won't lob this baby. so that leave this for close quarters...
notice the bamboo strip for thumb rest:

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by Spunjer

to put much dedication on something like this, i'm pretty sure i won't lob this baby. so that leave this for close quarters...

Spunjer,

Very nice pics! I love the details on those spears (thanks, too, Ric!).

There's so much details in fact, such that Krieger remarked in his study of Philippine weapons:

"The greater the amount of effort spent in the shaping and finishing of the weapon, the greater the reluctance that it is parted with. Among the more primitive tribes of the world the spear is usually a missile, consisting of a straight wooden pole running to a point hardened by fire, as among the tribes of New Guinea. In the Philippine Islands the spear is rarely a missile and the spear thrower is unknown."

Earlier though in the same book, Krieger also said:

"As a spear once thrown at an enemy can with difficulty be recovered it is sometimes customary to carry the spears in pairs -- one for throwing at the adversary early in the fight while the other is retained for hand-to-hand fighting. This practice exists among the Jacanes of the interior of Basilan Island."

Spears designed for throwing tend to be less ornate, such that it lends itself well for mass production. The Romans' pilum (below) is a good example of this.

And such el cheapo for-throwing-only spears are sometimes designed (e.g., the pilum) to break or bend upon impact, so that the enemy cannot throw it back.

[Nonoy Tan]

How does one distinguish between the Maguindanao, Maranao, Tausug, Mandaya, etc. spear?

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by Nonoy Tan

How does one distinguish between the Maguindanao, Maranao, Tausug, Mandaya, etc. spear?

I have the same query.

Perhaps we can orient ourselves first on where these groups are located in Mindanao, via the maps below.