Scottish Ribbon Hilt Sword. Maker info

templarnight · 28th February 2012, 02:29 PM

After much saving and scrimping I have at last acquired what I would call my dream Sword!
Can anyone help me with any info on the maker?

Carl M · 28th February 2012, 05:08 PM

My God, this is a beautiful sword! May I ask where you found it?

I looked in my sources, even Bezdek's "German Swords and Swordmakers" and there is no listing of "Peter Knavee," nor is there a "Knavee" family.

I am curious to find out more about this.

Can you give us some stats, like weight, point of balance, total and blade length?

templarnight · 28th February 2012, 05:33 PM

I acquired it recently from a fellow collector of Swords. I believe he bought it at Auction.

The Sword Blade is 84.5cm long, total length 98cm. Its 5.1cm max width.

1.52k in weight and the point of balance is about 7cm up from the Forte.

I think the surname is actually KNAVFE

Hope this helps.

ingelred · 29th February 2012, 07:07 AM

Hi,

could et be "Knauer"?
This is a German family name.

Greetings, Helge

laEspadaAncha · 29th February 2012, 05:09 PM

Sorry I can't be of no help in identifying the maker, but nonetheless I had to chime in just to say that is an absolutely example, a classic ribbon-hilted basket hilt... If only there was a drooling smiley to be found, there would be a small puddle of 1's and 0's at the base of my laptop screen right now...

M ELEY · 1st March 2012, 02:24 AM

I must also second that comment...I'd save for 10 years for one of these if I could-

Absolutely fantastic sword and a true piece of history.

Norman McCormick · 2nd January 2014, 05:06 PM

Hi Jim,
First of all let me wish you a Happy and Prosperous New Year and I hope that a few drams of your favourite whisky, Drambuie if my memory serves, eased the transition from 2013 to 2014.

With regards to your last post the term you were looking for is Not Proven rather than Unproven. It is a peculiarity of Scots Law that we have three verdicts in criminal cases rather than the normal two, although other countries do have more than two verdicts possible Italy being one. The verdict Not Proven means 'we think you did it but cannot prove it' so in cases of historical suppositions it may be particularly apt. The sword in question is a nice example and would look extremely good above my mantlepiece.

My Regards,
Norman.

fernando · 2nd January 2014, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

... The sword in question is a nice example and would look extremely good above my mantlepiece.

Can you 'prove' that, Norman ?

Norman McCormick · 2nd January 2014, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Can you 'prove' that, Norman ?

Jim McDougall · 3rd January 2014, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi Jim,
First of all let me wish you a Happy and Prosperous New Year and I hope that a few drams of your favourite whisky, Drambuie if my memory serves, eased the transition from 2013 to 2014.

With regards to your last post the term you were looking for is Not Proven rather than Unproven. It is a peculiarity of Scots Law that we have three verdicts in criminal cases rather than the normal two, although other countries do have more than two verdicts possible Italy being one. The verdict Not Proven means 'we think you did it but cannot prove it' so in cases of historical suppositions it may be particularly apt. The sword in question is a nice example and would look extremely good above my mantlepiece.

My Regards,
Norman.

Aye Norman!!! and to you and the family, a most happy and wonderful new year.....your memory serves well..it is Drambuie indeed!
Thank you so much for that correction on that term which I was using in analogous context, and had recalled incorrectly. I am always grateful for these kinds of details, and even better from a true kinsman.

I agree, this is truly a beautiful example of these magnificent swords, and it is always wonderful to see these great threads come back.

All the best,
Jim

M ELEY · 3rd January 2014, 01:17 AM

Wow! I had forgotten about this beautiful ribbon-hilt! Now that would be the jewel in anyone's collection! I just got done reading Peterson's old tome on weapons in Pre-Colonial America, so it is certainly possible that it could have been crafted here, or at least come over the pond to here! Due to its early dating and style, I would assume it came from the homeland until proven otherwise, though.

A belated Happy New Year to you gents, especially you, Jim! Indeed, William Thack aka Blackbeard should have never sassed a Highlander!!

boberl · 3rd October 2015, 12:54 AM

I have just joined this forum because I saw Templarnight's ribbon hilt last weekend. I have its twin brother or at least a kissin' cousin.
The only significant difference I can see, aside from the decorative piercing is that while his blade has the name Peter Knaupf, mine has the unbiquitous Andria Ferara, along with armourer's marks of an arc with three stars at each end on both sides of the blade.
The dimensions are nearly identical. It suggests that these swords, at the least, came out of the same shop.
I believe they are late in the ribbon hilt series based on the ring that joins the arms of the guards under the pommel. I have an earlier ribbon hilt in which the joining piece is simply a thin piece of iron.
The welding of the plates inside is very well done and all but invisible on the outside.
Most of my swords are on a thread on SFI started by Cathey Brimage, who also launched one here. Cathey, Eljay Erickson and I have been posting swords there are the last few months.
I saw some beautiful pieces on the thread on this forum, which Cathey was also involved in. Hope we can all share the goodies.

boberl · 9th July 2018, 07:12 PM

Sorry not to have posted this warning sooner.

After studying my sword closely and comparing it with known authentic ribbon hilts I concluded that it was a beautifully made reproduction.

I returned it to the dealer who did not dispute my conclusions. I learned very recently that it was sold on to another collector to whom I have explained my reasoning.

First, it is simply more than coincidental to find two swords, purportedly made in the 17th Century, with the names of different makers -- one of whom is unknown -- that are identical in every respect.

Second, it is also more than coincidental that neither sword shows any marks of use, no dings or dents, which a real ribbon hilt has in abundance.

Handling the one sword in comparison with other, authentic, swords offers the "feeling" that it just isn't right.

I learned later that my sword came through an English dealer who has a reputation for distributing iffy pieces.

In my case at least its purchase was a matter of enthusiasm overcoming good sense because my firm belief now is that both swords were not made in the 1600s but in the late 1900s or early 2000s.

28th February 2012, 02:29 PM	#1
templarnight Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 87	Scottish Ribbon Hilt Sword. Maker info After much saving and scrimping I have at last acquired what I would call my dream Sword! Can anyone help me with any info on the maker? Attached Images

3rd October 2015, 12:54 AM	#12
boberl Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 2	Twin brothers, or at least Kissin' Cousins I have just joined this forum because I saw Templarnight's ribbon hilt last weekend. I have its twin brother or at least a kissin' cousin. The only significant difference I can see, aside from the decorative piercing is that while his blade has the name Peter Knaupf, mine has the unbiquitous Andria Ferara, along with armourer's marks of an arc with three stars at each end on both sides of the blade. The dimensions are nearly identical. It suggests that these swords, at the least, came out of the same shop. I believe they are late in the ribbon hilt series based on the ring that joins the arms of the guards under the pommel. I have an earlier ribbon hilt in which the joining piece is simply a thin piece of iron. The welding of the plates inside is very well done and all but invisible on the outside. Most of my swords are on a thread on SFI started by Cathey Brimage, who also launched one here. Cathey, Eljay Erickson and I have been posting swords there are the last few months. I saw some beautiful pieces on the thread on this forum, which Cathey was also involved in. Hope we can all share the goodies. Attached Images

9th July 2018, 07:12 PM	#13
boberl Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 2	Fake Sorry not to have posted this warning sooner. After studying my sword closely and comparing it with known authentic ribbon hilts I concluded that it was a beautifully made reproduction. I returned it to the dealer who did not dispute my conclusions. I learned very recently that it was sold on to another collector to whom I have explained my reasoning. First, it is simply more than coincidental to find two swords, purportedly made in the 17th Century, with the names of different makers -- one of whom is unknown -- that are identical in every respect. Second, it is also more than coincidental that neither sword shows any marks of use, no dings or dents, which a real ribbon hilt has in abundance. Handling the one sword in comparison with other, authentic, swords offers the "feeling" that it just isn't right. I learned later that my sword came through an English dealer who has a reputation for distributing iffy pieces. In my case at least its purchase was a matter of enthusiasm overcoming good sense because my firm belief now is that both swords were not made in the 1600s but in the late 1900s or early 2000s.

28th February 2012, 05:08 PM	#2
Carl M Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 20	My God, this is a beautiful sword! May I ask where you found it? I looked in my sources, even Bezdek's "German Swords and Swordmakers" and there is no listing of "Peter Knavee," nor is there a "Knavee" family. I am curious to find out more about this. Can you give us some stats, like weight, point of balance, total and blade length?

28th February 2012, 05:33 PM	#3
templarnight Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 87	I acquired it recently from a fellow collector of Swords. I believe he bought it at Auction. The Sword Blade is 84.5cm long, total length 98cm. Its 5.1cm max width. 1.52k in weight and the point of balance is about 7cm up from the Forte. I think the surname is actually KNAVFE Hope this helps.

29th February 2012, 07:07 AM	#4
ingelred Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Moenchengladbach, Germany Posts: 62	Hi, could et be "Knauer"? This is a German family name. Greetings, Helge

29th February 2012, 05:09 PM	#5
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Sorry I can't be of no help in identifying the maker, but nonetheless I had to chime in just to say that is an absolutely example, a classic ribbon-hilted basket hilt... If only there was a drooling smiley to be found, there would be a small puddle of 1's and 0's at the base of my laptop screen right now...

1st March 2012, 02:24 AM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,094	I must also second that comment...I'd save for 10 years for one of these if I could- Absolutely fantastic sword and a true piece of history.

2nd January 2014, 05:06 PM	#7
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,596	Hi Jim, First of all let me wish you a Happy and Prosperous New Year and I hope that a few drams of your favourite whisky, Drambuie if my memory serves, eased the transition from 2013 to 2014. With regards to your last post the term you were looking for is Not Proven rather than Unproven. It is a peculiarity of Scots Law that we have three verdicts in criminal cases rather than the normal two, although other countries do have more than two verdicts possible Italy being one. The verdict Not Proven means 'we think you did it but cannot prove it' so in cases of historical suppositions it may be particularly apt. The sword in question is a nice example and would look extremely good above my mantlepiece. My Regards, Norman.

3rd January 2014, 01:17 AM	#11
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,094	Wow! I had forgotten about this beautiful ribbon-hilt! Now that would be the jewel in anyone's collection! I just got done reading Peterson's old tome on weapons in Pre-Colonial America, so it is certainly possible that it could have been crafted here, or at least come over the pond to here! Due to its early dating and style, I would assume it came from the homeland until proven otherwise, though. A belated Happy New Year to you gents, especially you, Jim! Indeed, William Thack aka Blackbeard should have never sassed a Highlander!!