Ethiopian scabbard: to fake or not to fake

roanoa · 24th July 2007, 09:26 AM

Hi guys. I should have posted this one in the ETHIOPIAN ANYONE? thread, but the issue goes of course well beyond the Etrhiopian borders.... Many of the Ethiopian swords I have found/seen/collected do not have a scabbard. Many of the ones that do have a scabbard have one in pretty bad shape. However, I REALLY like my swords to have a scabbard. There is something magical about unsheathing a sword; at least for me. Finding a replacement scabbard is virtually impossible, though a couple have surfaced on eBay in the last while. The problem is then whether it would take any of my blades. Most likely not due to the enormous variety of Ethiopian blades. So I have studied my Ethiopian scabbards and figured out how they were made, stitched and decorated, and proceeded to make a couple of "fakes". Am I justified in doing so? I KNOW it's a fake and I will tell with "pride" that it is a fake. It's just that a sword looks so much better with its scabbard.... Anyways, let's get back to the making of the scabbard. Ethiopian scabbards were made out of raw untreated hide that dried up in a very hard and stiff sheath. This was covered with a very thin lamb or kid leather that was usually dyed red and then extensively tooled. I had no luck in finding raw hide. So I had to use some stiff shoe-making leather. This was wetted and shaped around a mock blade made out of thin plywood. Once the leather had dried out, I unstitched it so I could remove the wooden blade. Stitch again. Lightly wet and "heat treat" and you end up with a reasonably stiff inner scabbard that will hold its shape. Then I covered it with lamb skin and tool it thougout. Oh yes, I had to make my own tools that closely resemble the original ones. The results are impressive, at least in my eyes. Here are the pictures of my latest creation. Very time consuming but very rewarding. So my question to you is: is it really worth it? Does it add any value to the sword, even if only from an esthetical point of view? Am I to be condemned as a heritic?

David · 24th July 2007, 02:34 PM

Nice work! Of course it adds value to the overall piece (though i don't see that as being most important in this case) in that i would personally be much more willing to buy a sword with a scabbard than without. As long as you are always clear that this scabbard is your own creation i see no problem with it whatsoever especially since you did this as a carefully researched, beautifully executed and accurate reproduction. You should be very proud.

Luc LEFEBVRE · 24th July 2007, 03:00 PM

Very nice work, you're an artist !
No problerm for me, if you like the scabbard, as you said you can never find one for your blade so...just do it yourself.And I think you have learned a lot of things around your sword while doing it.
Luc

Mark · 24th July 2007, 03:52 PM

Very nice work. I see no problem in replacing scabbards. In addition to looking nice, they protect the blade. After all, if a buyer doesn't like it, they don't have to use it.

You did not mention how the leather you used was tanned. It is best to use vegetable-tanned (or some similar non-chemical process) leather, as many commercial-scale processes acidify the leather to the point that it will rust the heck out of the blade in no time at all.

CharlesS · 24th July 2007, 07:19 PM

Like you, I am not crazy about a "naked sword"...they were generally never intended to be that way outside of combat conditions.

What you have done here is not only a beautiful job, but compliments the sword based on an attempt at an accurately made and detailed scabbard. In my eyes it adds loads to the character and increases the value of the sword.

Nice!!!

katana · 24th July 2007, 10:35 PM

Excellent work Ron, to 'back engineer' and then create an authentic scabbard sympathetic to the region and their 'craft' is, .. outstanding. Well done

With more and more formites repairing their pieces, making scabbards etc it would be nice to document the various techniques used. Perhaps creating a DIY section dedicated to advice etc . The added advantage would be increased knowledge of the manufacturing techniques used to create the weapons we all 'hold so dear'.

Tim Simmons · 24th July 2007, 10:44 PM

Absolutely first class. I have to say that I have had and seen many swords from the area not in red scabbards. What you have made and assuming it was by your owen untrained hand is excellent and not a fake but a facsimile.

roanoa · 24th July 2007, 11:19 PM

Mark, I believe the leather I used for the inner sheath is vegetable-tanned. I also understand that this is the kind of leather that will heat harden. The inner scabbard has to be reasonably stiff. I will ask one of my friends who is a big game hunter to save me a big piece of Elk or Moose hide (Deer is too thin) and I'll try to make a scabbard using raw hide and see how it turn out.

Katana, I will try and document the process of Ethiopian scabbard making step by step should anyone be interested.

Rick · 24th July 2007, 11:41 PM

Ron, not intending to hijack this thread but could you offer any comments on this interesting piece in this thread ?

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4849

roanoa · 25th July 2007, 12:30 AM

Hi Rick. I had seen this knife and I did not offer any comments because it would have been, then as it is now, sheer speculation. But since you ask... I agree that the hilt/handle looks Ethiopian. However, the blade and the scabbard are a question mark. Obviously, I have never seen anything like this. The shape of the blade close to the handle reminds me of the swords from the NGBANDI-POTO and AZANDE tribes. In addition I have never seen any Ethiopian scabbard with that kind of belt attached with rings. A close up of the scabbard decoration (if any) could offer some clues. All in all it is a very puzzling piece and all I can do is to scratch my head..... Sorry.

VANDOO · 25th July 2007, 02:02 AM

A VERY NICE JOB INDEED

THE GOOD QUALITY NATIVE MADE ONES PROBABLY LOOKED VERY MUCH LIKE YOURS DOES WHEN THEY WERE NEW.

IN A WAY YOU HAVE FOLLOWED THE TRADITION FROM ANCIENT TIMES OF MAKEING OR HAVEING MADE A SCABBARD FOR A SWORD THAT YOU AQUIRED IN SOME WAY WITHOUT THE SCABBARD. A NEW SCABBARD IS BETTER THAN NONE SO SHOULD ADD VALUE TO THE ITEM AND THE MORE AUTHENTIC AND HIGHER QUALITY THE WORK THE MORE VALUE IT ADDS. AS MENTIONED ABOVE IT DOES COMPLETE THE WEAPON AND PROTECT IT AS WELL AS LOOK VERY GOOD IN THIS CASE. GOOD WORK!!

Rick · 25th July 2007, 02:50 AM

The skills and talent of the members of this forum constantly amaze me.
That is beautiful work !

katana · 25th July 2007, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roanoa

Katana, I will try and document the process of Ethiopian scabbard making step by step should anyone be interested.

That would be great.....I am in the process of doing a 'how to' with wooden cored scabbards.....the idea being pictures and narrative in a step by step guide. Once posted I was hoping for extra input and ideas etc ..which could be added to give a comprehensive guide.
The same concept for leather sheaths would be fantastic. I am quite prepared to create another 'how to' if you can provide all the information.

If anyone has info on the repair etc of weapons or references to their construction (ie hilt making, decorative technigues etc but not the forging process itself), I would be very interested.

Regards David

derek · 29th July 2007, 01:15 AM

Roano,

That really is fantastic work. You've obviously studied the details of the patterns on Ethiopian scabbards as well.

I have one gurade that came with a "museum quality" replacement scabbard. I'll post a few pics later. If actually is really nice work, but it took a little bit a liberty with the fittings. Still, like you say, it's nice to have a good scabbard.

-d

24th July 2007, 09:26 AM	#1
roanoa Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 235	Ethiopian scabbard: to fake or not to fake Hi guys. I should have posted this one in the ETHIOPIAN ANYONE? thread, but the issue goes of course well beyond the Etrhiopian borders.... Many of the Ethiopian swords I have found/seen/collected do not have a scabbard. Many of the ones that do have a scabbard have one in pretty bad shape. However, I REALLY like my swords to have a scabbard. There is something magical about unsheathing a sword; at least for me. Finding a replacement scabbard is virtually impossible, though a couple have surfaced on eBay in the last while. The problem is then whether it would take any of my blades. Most likely not due to the enormous variety of Ethiopian blades. So I have studied my Ethiopian scabbards and figured out how they were made, stitched and decorated, and proceeded to make a couple of "fakes". Am I justified in doing so? I KNOW it's a fake and I will tell with "pride" that it is a fake. It's just that a sword looks so much better with its scabbard.... Anyways, let's get back to the making of the scabbard. Ethiopian scabbards were made out of raw untreated hide that dried up in a very hard and stiff sheath. This was covered with a very thin lamb or kid leather that was usually dyed red and then extensively tooled. I had no luck in finding raw hide. So I had to use some stiff shoe-making leather. This was wetted and shaped around a mock blade made out of thin plywood. Once the leather had dried out, I unstitched it so I could remove the wooden blade. Stitch again. Lightly wet and "heat treat" and you end up with a reasonably stiff inner scabbard that will hold its shape. Then I covered it with lamb skin and tool it thougout. Oh yes, I had to make my own tools that closely resemble the original ones. The results are impressive, at least in my eyes. Here are the pictures of my latest creation. Very time consuming but very rewarding. So my question to you is: is it really worth it? Does it add any value to the sword, even if only from an esthetical point of view? Am I to be condemned as a heritic? Attached Images

24th July 2007, 02:34 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	Nice work! Of course it adds value to the overall piece (though i don't see that as being most important in this case) in that i would personally be much more willing to buy a sword with a scabbard than without. As long as you are always clear that this scabbard is your own creation i see no problem with it whatsoever especially since you did this as a carefully researched, beautifully executed and accurate reproduction. You should be very proud.

24th July 2007, 03:00 PM	#3
Luc LEFEBVRE Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: France Posts: 472	Very nice work, you're an artist ! No problerm for me, if you like the scabbard, as you said you can never find one for your blade so...just do it yourself.And I think you have learned a lot of things around your sword while doing it. Luc

24th July 2007, 03:52 PM	#4
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Very nice work. I see no problem in replacing scabbards. In addition to looking nice, they protect the blade. After all, if a buyer doesn't like it, they don't have to use it. You did not mention how the leather you used was tanned. It is best to use vegetable-tanned (or some similar non-chemical process) leather, as many commercial-scale processes acidify the leather to the point that it will rust the heck out of the blade in no time at all.

24th July 2007, 07:19 PM	#5
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Like you, I am not crazy about a "naked sword"...they were generally never intended to be that way outside of combat conditions. What you have done here is not only a beautiful job, but compliments the sword based on an attempt at an accurately made and detailed scabbard. In my eyes it adds loads to the character and increases the value of the sword. Nice!!!

24th July 2007, 10:35 PM	#6
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Excellent work Ron, to 'back engineer' and then create an authentic scabbard sympathetic to the region and their 'craft' is, .. outstanding. Well done With more and more formites repairing their pieces, making scabbards etc it would be nice to document the various techniques used. Perhaps creating a DIY section dedicated to advice etc . The added advantage would be increased knowledge of the manufacturing techniques used to create the weapons we all 'hold so dear'.

24th July 2007, 10:44 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Absolutely first class. I have to say that I have had and seen many swords from the area not in red scabbards. What you have made and assuming it was by your owen untrained hand is excellent and not a fake but a facsimile.

24th July 2007, 11:19 PM	#8
roanoa Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 235	Mark, I believe the leather I used for the inner sheath is vegetable-tanned. I also understand that this is the kind of leather that will heat harden. The inner scabbard has to be reasonably stiff. I will ask one of my friends who is a big game hunter to save me a big piece of Elk or Moose hide (Deer is too thin) and I'll try to make a scabbard using raw hide and see how it turn out. Katana, I will try and document the process of Ethiopian scabbard making step by step should anyone be interested.

24th July 2007, 11:41 PM	#9
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Ron, not intending to hijack this thread but could you offer any comments on this interesting piece in this thread ? http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4849

25th July 2007, 12:30 AM	#10
roanoa Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 235	Hi Rick. I had seen this knife and I did not offer any comments because it would have been, then as it is now, sheer speculation. But since you ask... I agree that the hilt/handle looks Ethiopian. However, the blade and the scabbard are a question mark. Obviously, I have never seen anything like this. The shape of the blade close to the handle reminds me of the swords from the NGBANDI-POTO and AZANDE tribes. In addition I have never seen any Ethiopian scabbard with that kind of belt attached with rings. A close up of the scabbard decoration (if any) could offer some clues. All in all it is a very puzzling piece and all I can do is to scratch my head..... Sorry.

25th July 2007, 02:02 AM	#11
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	A VERY NICE JOB INDEED THE GOOD QUALITY NATIVE MADE ONES PROBABLY LOOKED VERY MUCH LIKE YOURS DOES WHEN THEY WERE NEW. IN A WAY YOU HAVE FOLLOWED THE TRADITION FROM ANCIENT TIMES OF MAKEING OR HAVEING MADE A SCABBARD FOR A SWORD THAT YOU AQUIRED IN SOME WAY WITHOUT THE SCABBARD. A NEW SCABBARD IS BETTER THAN NONE SO SHOULD ADD VALUE TO THE ITEM AND THE MORE AUTHENTIC AND HIGHER QUALITY THE WORK THE MORE VALUE IT ADDS. AS MENTIONED ABOVE IT DOES COMPLETE THE WEAPON AND PROTECT IT AS WELL AS LOOK VERY GOOD IN THIS CASE. GOOD WORK!!

25th July 2007, 02:50 AM	#12
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	The skills and talent of the members of this forum constantly amaze me. That is beautiful work !

29th July 2007, 01:15 AM	#14
derek Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 215	Roano, That really is fantastic work. You've obviously studied the details of the patterns on Ethiopian scabbards as well. I have one gurade that came with a "museum quality" replacement scabbard. I'll post a few pics later. If actually is really nice work, but it took a little bit a liberty with the fittings. Still, like you say, it's nice to have a good scabbard. -d