Spear ID

JeffS · 19th March 2023, 06:40 AM

Anyone recognize this style? 39.5 cm OAL. Heavy duty tang.

Battara · 19th March 2023, 07:07 AM

Kind of looks Indonesian to me, maybe Borneo, but shorter than usual. The base also looks a little Chinese, but I could be wrong.

Ian · 19th March 2023, 09:25 PM

Hi Jeff,

Judging from the heavy construction of the blade and tang, this one could be a lance head. It looks as though it has been around for a while and has been used a lot. Nice piece.

I don't recognize the style.

JeffS · 20th March 2023, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Hi Jeff,

Judging from the heavy construction of the blade and tang, this one could be a lance head. It looks as though it has been around for a while and has been used a lot. Nice piece.

I don't recognize the style.

Interesting. Would that limit origin geographically? We don't often discuss mounted combat in SE Asia

Sajen · 20th March 2023, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffS

Interesting. Would that limit origin geographically? We don't often discuss mounted combat in SE Asia

I think that it is of South-East-Asian origin.

Regards,
Detlef

Ian · 21st March 2023, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffS

Interesting. Would that limit origin geographically? We don't often discuss mounted combat in SE Asia

I don't know the answer to that question Jeff.

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In looking further at your spear head, I notice that it has some old damage to the blade. In a blow up of your picture, I see a piece missing on the bottom edge (arrowed). There is a crack in the steel which may have been a forging flaw or caused by contact. I think I can see evidence of lamination elsewhere also. This appears to be a laminated blade with some age—at least late 19th C., maybe earlier.

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DavidFriedman · 21st March 2023, 07:26 PM

Could it be a Vietnamese specimen?

DavidFriedman · 21st March 2023, 07:34 PM

Notice the similar concentric ring design on the collar, and obviously, the SE Asian tang, found on this Nguyen dynasty Vietnamese Snake/hook lance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

I don't know the answer to that question Jeff.

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Attachment 225401

In looking further at your spear head, I notice that it has some old damage to the blade. In a blow up of your picture, I see a piece missing on the bottom edge (arrowed). There is a crack in the steel which may have been a forging flaw or caused by contact. I think I can see evidence of lamination elsewhere also. This appears to be a laminated blade with some age—at least late 19th C., maybe earlier.

.

Ian · 22nd March 2023, 05:23 AM

Hi DavidF,

That looks a fairly good match. As Battara noted earlier, there is a "Chinese feel" to this piece, and that would fit with a Viet provenance during the Nguyen Dynasty.

JeffS · 22nd March 2023, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

In looking further at your spear head, I notice that it has some old damage to the blade. In a blow up of your picture, I see a piece missing on the bottom edge (arrowed). There is a crack in the steel which may have been a forging flaw or caused by contact.

I was assuming all the cracks were cold shuts, but the area you point out is cracked on both sides and the profile slightly distorted at that location. Thank you for pointing that out.

Ian · 22nd March 2023, 05:38 AM

Thanks Jeff, the extra pics show that this is indeed a laminated blade. The cracked edge looks very much the result of of a heavy blow from a sharp, heavy edged weapon. The edge has been ground back subsequently to smooth out the deficit in the blade. This is a gnarly old weapon that has seen heavy action. Someone thought it was worth repairing the edge and putting it back into service. Nice old piece.

JeffS · 22nd March 2023, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidFriedman

Notice the similar concentric ring design on the collar, and obviously, the SE Asian tang, found on this Nguyen dynasty Vietnamese Snake/hook lance.

Interesting. I've also noted that Sumatran spears sometimes have a similar collar as well.

fernando · 22nd March 2023, 12:11 PM

Does Jeff's piece have any relation with this one?

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Ian · 22nd March 2023, 02:07 PM

Hi Fernando. Hard to say, I think. Both heads are of a fairly basic shape that works well and is found widely. We don't have a shaft for Jeff's piece, so no clues there.

Maj-Biffy Snodgrass · 22nd March 2023, 08:11 PM

BATAK LANCE 19thc.
as here
With de laminations due to age not necessarily battle damage, although could be damage through use-battle.

https://www.quaibranly.fr/fr/explore.../1460-lance;):)

Gavin Nugent · 23rd March 2023, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maj-Biffy Snodgrass

BATAK LANCE 19thc.
as here
With de laminations due to age not necessarily battle damage, although could be damage through use-battle.

https://www.quaibranly.fr/fr/explore.../1460-lance;):)

Sumatra to my eye too.

Ian · 23rd March 2023, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maj-Biffy Snodgrass

BATAK LANCE 19thc.
as here
With de laminations due to age not necessarily battle damage, although could be damage through use-battle.

https://www.quaibranly.fr/fr/explore.../1460-lance;):)

Hi BS,

Yes, there are a number of possible candidates. The pics in the link are not high quality. I've reproduced them here for our records. As can be seen, the blade and bolster are different from the OP.

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Maj-Biffy Snodgrass · 23rd March 2023, 03:19 PM

Hi Ian, the spear head Jeffs shows is certainly very much akin to the lance sown in your enlarged pics, one thinks also that due to size it is likely a lance head rather than a spear head, there are in fact a number of old b+w pics from the old days that are showing such lances in the hands of Batak warriors on line, sadly at present one is still learning to navigate the site, have not yet learned to add pics. snoddy

19th March 2023, 06:40 AM	#1
JeffS Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 345	Spear ID Anyone recognize this style? 39.5 cm OAL. Heavy duty tang. Attached Images

21st March 2023, 07:26 PM	#7
DavidFriedman Member Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 113	Vietnamese Could it be a Vietnamese specimen?

22nd March 2023, 08:11 PM	#15
Maj-Biffy Snodgrass Member Join Date: Mar 2023 Posts: 66	my 2 pennies worth. BATAK LANCE 19thc. as here With de laminations due to age not necessarily battle damage, although could be damage through use-battle. https://www.quaibranly.fr/fr/explore.../1460-lance;):)

23rd March 2023, 03:19 PM	#18
Maj-Biffy Snodgrass Member Join Date: Mar 2023 Posts: 66	spear head Hi Ian, the spear head Jeffs shows is certainly very much akin to the lance sown in your enlarged pics, one thinks also that due to size it is likely a lance head rather than a spear head, there are in fact a number of old b+w pics from the old days that are showing such lances in the hands of Batak warriors on line, sadly at present one is still learning to navigate the site, have not yet learned to add pics. snoddy

19th March 2023, 07:07 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	Kind of looks Indonesian to me, maybe Borneo, but shorter than usual. The base also looks a little Chinese, but I could be wrong.

19th March 2023, 09:25 PM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,203	Hi Jeff, Judging from the heavy construction of the blade and tang, this one could be a lance head. It looks as though it has been around for a while and has been used a lot. Nice piece. I don't recognize the style.

22nd March 2023, 05:23 AM	#9
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,203	Hi DavidF, That looks a fairly good match. As Battara noted earlier, there is a "Chinese feel" to this piece, and that would fit with a Viet provenance during the Nguyen Dynasty.

22nd March 2023, 05:38 AM	#11
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,203	Thanks Jeff, the extra pics show that this is indeed a laminated blade. The cracked edge looks very much the result of of a heavy blow from a sharp, heavy edged weapon. The edge has been ground back subsequently to smooth out the deficit in the blade. This is a gnarly old weapon that has seen heavy action. Someone thought it was worth repairing the edge and putting it back into service. Nice old piece.

22nd March 2023, 12:11 PM	#13
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Does Jeff's piece have any relation with this one? .

22nd March 2023, 02:07 PM	#14
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,203	Hi Fernando. Hard to say, I think. Both heads are of a fairly basic shape that works well and is found widely. We don't have a shaft for Jeff's piece, so no clues there.