Any help with these koummyas?

corrado26 · 19th February 2015, 04:54 PM

I've got these two Koummyas several years ago and would like to know their age and origin.
Regards
corrado26

Henk · 19th February 2015, 10:17 PM

The only thing i can tell you is that these two look very nice. The blades are well executed.
Age and origin i don't know. The only thing i know is that they come from Morocco.

Let's hope some more knowledgeable members will give a comment.

David R · 19th February 2015, 10:55 PM

Those are exceptionally nice pieces, I would guess especially made for presentation to Dignitaries!

VANDOO · 19th February 2015, 11:12 PM

I WOULD AGREE MOROCCO 20TH CENTURY BETTER QUALITY RECENT DAGGERS THAN MOST I SAW FOR SALE THERE. IF SOLID SILVER VERY GOOD QUALITY IF SILVER PLATED GOOD BUT NOT FIRST CLASS. NICE EXAMPLES, VERY PLEASING TO THE EYE WITH GOOD BLADES NOT JUST COMMON TOURIST STUFF.

Kubur · 20th February 2015, 12:17 AM

Ok I can tell you a lot about this koummiya because I have one similar and I did some researches about it. There are from the first part of the 20th c.
around 1900-1930.
Some have good and fonctionnal blades, like yours.
Some like mine have shitty blades, not even sharpened, but with a nice stamp on it. The second type is clearly for parade and are not functionnal.
They could be old tourist pieces, but I think there were just ornaments for locals.
They did some "tourist pistols" or "fantasia pistols" with the same camel bones...
Regards,
Kubur

corrado26 · 20th February 2015, 03:07 PM

Thank you all for your informative help - I love these nice pieces because of their uncommon design which set them off from the every day Koummyas. Two other koummyas from my collection have a grip that - as I'm been told -should be desert amber. The third one is inlaid with henna coloured bone.
corrado26

Kubur · 20th February 2015, 09:00 PM

Very nice
As far I know there is no amber in the desert.
Look at the thread on the jambiya with bakelite grip.
The bakelite is a kind of old plastic...

VANDOO · 21st February 2015, 05:59 AM

THESE LAST TWO DAGGERS ARE LIKE THE MAJORITY OF THE DAGGERS MANY SHOPS IN MOROCCO WERE FULL OF. THEY ARE FLASHY BUT NOT AS OLD OR AS GOOD WORKMANSHIP AS THE FIRST TWO. THE AMBER WILL BE REAL LOW GRADE AMBER MELTED AND REFORMED AT BEST, BUT MORE LIKELY SOME MORE MODERN SORT OF POLYMER RESIN. THEY DO MAKE A GOOD DISPLAY AND THE SOUKS IN MOROCCO WERE QUITE ATTRACTIVE WITH LOTS OF THESE AND MANY NICE RUGS MAKING UP THE WALLS AND FILLING THE SHELVES AND DISPLAY CASES.

Battara · 22nd February 2015, 03:14 AM

Am I correct that these are also made of camel bone?

archer · 22nd February 2015, 06:28 AM

The blade style shown often has an odd metal grain and I believe they were all associated with presentation pieces. This one was jeweler tested for an extended time and found not only to be resin, but of the real ancient Amber.
The second photoed Amber koummya sold at auction in Italy last year for 5K.
So look at them carefully. the katar slipped in ignore it. A home test
is with nail polish remover Acetone a drop in a hidden spot should have no effect, if touched no finger prints will remain. Steve

DaveA · 26th February 2015, 06:05 AM

I especially like #2 with the white bone grip. Is that walrus ivory or something else? When it ages it has a very spectacular appearance to my eye! And yes, the blades are something really special given the ordinary workmanship that is usually seen. Congrats on these two beautiful knives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

I've got these two Koummyas several years ago and would like to know their age and origin.
Regards
corrado26

- Dave A.

corrado26 · 26th February 2015, 04:52 PM

No, I think it's either camel or goat bone. The one with the fat red grip I showed above is certainly made from henna coloured camel bone with silver application.

@ Kubur: Don't forget that the Sahara has not been always a desert, millions of years ago it was an ocean!!
corrado26

Kubur · 26th February 2015, 05:11 PM

Really? But where are the fish now?

corrado26 · 1st March 2015, 09:29 AM

All the koummyas in the attached foto come from the collection of the former and world famous tennis champion Baron Gottfried von Cramm, born 1909, who has been living in the castle Wispenstein near Alfeld. Von Cramm founded in 1951 a transport firm dealing with cotton in Egypt and became in the same year the fifth husband of at that time richest women of the world, Barbara Hutton. So he had spent a lot of time in Egypt, where he died in 1974. I think that all my Koummyas that I have shown here have been bought during that time in Egypt.
corrado26

19th February 2015, 04:54 PM	#1
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	Any help with these koummyas? I've got these two Koummyas several years ago and would like to know their age and origin. Regards corrado26 Attached Images

20th February 2015, 12:17 AM	#5
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Ok I can tell you a lot about this koummiya because I have one similar and I did some researches about it. There are from the first part of the 20th c. around 1900-1930. Some have good and fonctionnal blades, like yours. Some like mine have shitty blades, not even sharpened, but with a nice stamp on it. The second type is clearly for parade and are not functionnal. They could be old tourist pieces, but I think there were just ornaments for locals. They did some "tourist pistols" or "fantasia pistols" with the same camel bones... Regards, Kubur Attached Images

20th February 2015, 03:07 PM	#6
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	Thank you all for your informative help - I love these nice pieces because of their uncommon design which set them off from the every day Koummyas. Two other koummyas from my collection have a grip that - as I'm been told -should be desert amber. The third one is inlaid with henna coloured bone. corrado26 Attached Images

22nd February 2015, 06:28 AM	#10
archer Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 373	Amber koummyas The blade style shown often has an odd metal grain and I believe they were all associated with presentation pieces. This one was jeweler tested for an extended time and found not only to be resin, but of the real ancient Amber. The second photoed Amber koummya sold at auction in Italy last year for 5K. So look at them carefully. the katar slipped in ignore it. A home test is with nail polish remover Acetone a drop in a hidden spot should have no effect, if touched no finger prints will remain. Steve Attached Images Last edited by archer; 22nd February 2015 at 06:44 AM.

1st March 2015, 09:29 AM	#14
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	All the koummyas in the attached foto come from the collection of the former and world famous tennis champion Baron Gottfried von Cramm, born 1909, who has been living in the castle Wispenstein near Alfeld. Von Cramm founded in 1951 a transport firm dealing with cotton in Egypt and became in the same year the fifth husband of at that time richest women of the world, Barbara Hutton. So he had spent a lot of time in Egypt, where he died in 1974. I think that all my Koummyas that I have shown here have been bought during that time in Egypt. corrado26 Attached Images

19th February 2015, 10:17 PM	#2
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	The only thing i can tell you is that these two look very nice. The blades are well executed. Age and origin i don't know. The only thing i know is that they come from Morocco. Let's hope some more knowledgeable members will give a comment.

19th February 2015, 10:55 PM	#3
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,079	Those are exceptionally nice pieces, I would guess especially made for presentation to Dignitaries!

19th February 2015, 11:12 PM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I WOULD AGREE MOROCCO 20TH CENTURY BETTER QUALITY RECENT DAGGERS THAN MOST I SAW FOR SALE THERE. IF SOLID SILVER VERY GOOD QUALITY IF SILVER PLATED GOOD BUT NOT FIRST CLASS. NICE EXAMPLES, VERY PLEASING TO THE EYE WITH GOOD BLADES NOT JUST COMMON TOURIST STUFF.

20th February 2015, 09:00 PM	#7
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Very nice As far I know there is no amber in the desert. Look at the thread on the jambiya with bakelite grip. The bakelite is a kind of old plastic...

21st February 2015, 05:59 AM	#8
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THESE LAST TWO DAGGERS ARE LIKE THE MAJORITY OF THE DAGGERS MANY SHOPS IN MOROCCO WERE FULL OF. THEY ARE FLASHY BUT NOT AS OLD OR AS GOOD WORKMANSHIP AS THE FIRST TWO. THE AMBER WILL BE REAL LOW GRADE AMBER MELTED AND REFORMED AT BEST, BUT MORE LIKELY SOME MORE MODERN SORT OF POLYMER RESIN. THEY DO MAKE A GOOD DISPLAY AND THE SOUKS IN MOROCCO WERE QUITE ATTRACTIVE WITH LOTS OF THESE AND MANY NICE RUGS MAKING UP THE WALLS AND FILLING THE SHELVES AND DISPLAY CASES.

22nd February 2015, 03:14 AM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Am I correct that these are also made of camel bone?

26th February 2015, 04:52 PM	#12
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	No, I think it's either camel or goat bone. The one with the fat red grip I showed above is certainly made from henna coloured camel bone with silver application. @ Kubur: Don't forget that the Sahara has not been always a desert, millions of years ago it was an ocean!! corrado26

26th February 2015, 05:11 PM	#13
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Really? But where are the fish now?