Unusual Shotel

ericlaude · 28th January 2011, 05:55 PM

Good morning has all,
This Thread is for specialist of Ethiopian Shotel, if one of them can tell me more about this unusual shotel.
The strong handle is made in horn ( Rhino?), the pommel , the ferule and the guard are made in solid brass. its measre 36" Ovl 28" for the blade and large 2,2". It weighs 1,2Kg.
Thank you in advance
Best regards
Eric

ericlaude · 28th January 2011, 05:57 PM

Seconds pictures

VANDOO · 28th January 2011, 06:50 PM

A REMARKABLE SWORD. I WOULD SAY IT IS EUROPEAN MADE POSSIBLY GERMAN ,THE HORN HANDLE LOOKS MORE LIKE WATER BUFFALOW HORN NOT RHINO HARD TO TELL FROM THE PICTURES. IT DOES HAVE THE ETCHED AND BLUED BLADE WITH THE ETHIOPIAN ROYAL LION AS OFTEN SEEN ON IMPORTED GERMAN BLADES. IT INCORPORATES SOME TRUE ETHIOPIAN DESIGN BUT IS ARTISTICALLY MODIFIED TOWARD MOSTLY EUROPEAN DESIGN. VERY PLEASING TO THE EYE AND LIKELY ONE OF A KIND. WITH BETTER PICTURES PERHAPS SOMEONE CAN READ THE INSCRIPTION ON THE BLADE.
MY GUESS IS THIS WAS SPECIALLY MADE TO BE PRESENTED TO A PERSON OF IMPORTANCE IN ETHIOPIA. PERHAPS THE INSCRIPTION MAY SHED SOME LIGHT ON WHO MADE IT OR WHO IT WAS PRESENTED TO. GOOD LUCK

DaveS · 28th January 2011, 08:49 PM

Definitly the best i have ever seen!!!!!!!!!!!!. What a find!!!!!!......Dave.

Battara · 29th January 2011, 04:29 AM

WW!

roanoa · 29th January 2011, 06:52 AM

Absolutely fantastic piece. Trade? Sell? Just asking.... The inscription on the blade is backwards. Flip it 180 and it will read ITIYOPIA: TEBETSEHE: IDEWIHA: BEIGHEZEE'EBIHER:: That is: Ethiopia reaches out to to God.
It is one of the most common inscription found. It is written in Ge'ez: the ancient language used by the Ethiopian Coptic Church. The faces are those of Menelik II, Zewuditu (Empress) and (this is a guess..) Lij Eyasu. I have seen (and have one myself) some straight bladed SAIF swords with the same faces and inscription. I would say these blades are German. But...?? British is another guess. I will venture to say that the hilt was retrofitted. Maybe at the factory itself so that the blade could be handled. By the way, the hilt was mounted backwards as the shotel will have the tip pointing towards the opponent. Also, the red felt spacer would not make sense on a leather scabbard. Then again, I doubt this blade ever had a scabbard. Hilt looks Victorian. Not rhino. In any case, it is wonderful.

ericlaude · 29th January 2011, 11:56 AM

For the moment, just asking and showing, many thanks for yours reply, I will showing more details of the faces.

Mauro · 30th January 2011, 12:30 AM

Hello everybody, very nice shotel. Regarding the blade it could also be French: difficult to say. Roanoa is right that the same trylogy (Menelik, Eyasu and Taitu) is found also in other blades from England or Germany. However, the pommel with this classic head also has a French smell with this Greek hero and a classic helmet. The helmet has what appers to be a falcon but I do not see well if there is also a snake. It would be necessary a detailed photo on this part. On the side of the helmet seems that there is a sphinx. My knowledge of classics are not strong enough to recognize the God depicted in the Pommel. The falcon and the snake are sacred to Horus and Horus is compared to Apollo but this is only a supposition. France ??

Martin Lubojacky · 30th January 2011, 09:55 PM

Exquisite blade !!!
As far as the handle is concerned, I think there are two possibilities - either made as it is as a gift for some of the Rases, or replacement /?/(two blades similiar to this (gilded) which I have seen had handles made of top grade reddish rhino horns...)
(Roanoa, I cannot read geez, but I often heard another, maybe liberal translation: "And Ethiopia reaches out its hands skywards" - which should be citation from

Martin Lubojacky · 30th January 2011, 09:59 PM

sorry - finger slipped on keyboard, so:
...which should be citation from the New Testament. Or is it totaly another woprding?)

roanoa · 31st January 2011, 01:18 AM

Hi Martin. The inscription is taken indeed from the Coptic Bible and could be read as "Ethiopia asks for God's help", "Ethiopia reaches out to God", "Ethiopia holds its hands up to God". Liberal translations, but meaning the same thing. I understand Haile Selassie closed his speech to the League of Nation protesting the Italian invasion of his country with these words.
The catalogues of Julius Voos and Eickhorn (both from Solingen) and of Wilkinson show that the blades, even the more fancy ones, were supplied without hilt and scabbard. I believe the hilt (mounted BACKWARD) is either a replacement or it was mounted at the factory on the "salesman sample" to better handle the blade. Fantastic piece, regardless.
Do you happen to have pictures of the shotels you refer too?

Martin Lubojacky · 31st January 2011, 08:54 AM

Hi Roanoa,
One of the blades is at home - in Prague, I do not have picture and unfortunately I will be there in half a year. Nevertheless this is not shotel - but Ethiopian saif with straight, Wilkinson blade. There ere still traces of gilding in etched design. Another one, in this case shotel, I saw in Ethiopia cca 15 years ago.

At home I have also gorade(shabola) with etched real partrait of young man, some peaople said it was young Haile Sellassie from his Harrar times, when he was cca 15 (?) years old. When I am back in Prague, I will post it.

Tim Simmons · 31st January 2011, 09:40 PM

I am probably way off but take a long hard look at the helmet on the head pommel knob. I may well be French. The winged sphinx is seems a hang over from the French exploits in Egypt. Look at the side view, the crest is an eagle. The face on view ie the beak is more stylised but it does have a snake in its mouth. I think that is most intesting considering French action in Mexico.

Tim Simmons · 31st January 2011, 10:20 PM

You can google "eagle eating snake imagery" but not much for "falcon eating snake imagery"

Jim McDougall · 31st January 2011, 10:47 PM

Truly remarkable piece. I would say that the hunting hanger style grip represents distinct European style for earlier court oriented weapons, and the neo-classical figure on the pommel suggests French hilting. I would say this is probably a diplomatically intended presentation or gift to a figure in important standing in Abyssinia. This high end piece might have to do with dealings during the Anglo Egyptian condominium and post Fashoda incident (1898) territorial disputes in these regions between that and France. The blade to me seems German. It is tempting to align the fluer de lis style in the quillons to France also.

Tim Simmons · 31st January 2011, 10:56 PM

As roanoa has already pointed out that the handle is on the wrong way round. The shotel is used with the concave edge leading. Why could this be?

Jim McDougall · 31st January 2011, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

As roanoa has already pointed out that the handle is on the wrong way round. The shotel is used with the concave edge leading. Why could this be?

Maybe because if it was hilted in France, they werent cognizant of the error as the item was intended for presentation rather than actual use?

roanoa · 1st February 2011, 03:10 AM

Just for the fun of it, since I am not that much into mythology, that does not look like a Sphinx to me... A Chimera? Not that it makes much of a difference....

Rick · 1st February 2011, 03:16 AM

Could one suggest the unsuggestable word here ?

Begins with a 'C' ... <ducks and covers>

Tim Simmons · 1st February 2011, 05:59 PM

Okay. winged lion sphinx like thing

.

Jim McDougall · 1st February 2011, 11:39 PM

While the intense debate continues on the pommel figure, I am as always distracted by trying to learn more on the possible history of this potentially presentation or diplomatic gift grade shotel.

For those readers out there also considering that aspect of the sword, I wanted to note some things I discovered on the geopolitical situation in Ethiopia c.1890s.
Menelik II (r.1889-1913) was in power in then Abysssinia, the British were trying to stabilize the Sudanese regions after the demise of the Mahdi, and were prepared to acknowledge Italian suzereinty in Ethiopian regions.

France however was encouraging Menelik to oppose the Italian threat by delineating the borders of his empire. They had already been granted the authority by Menelik to build a railroad from Addis Ababa to Djibouti (French Somaliland). They joined Menelik in 1898 to penetrate the Sudan against the British at Fashoda in the strained conflicts which ultimately resulted in the Tripartite treat of Dec. 13,1906 between the UK, France and Ethiopia.

Since it seems to me that the character of this 'shotel' reflects prevalent French character (the pommel is likely the neoclassic image of Mars/Ares), with likely a German made blade, the events of these times suggest the possible diplomatic nature of this sword.

I have seen another diplomatically oriented sword with similar blued and gilt blade motif including Amharic inscription, Lion of Judah and regalia type images, on a European style sabre blade, this one during the rule of Theodore.

While unclear exactly which event or figures this sword may pertain to or more definite date, it seems worthy to consider those described as being possibilities.

In the attached, image of Mars as often portrayed in neoclassic motif, not with snake or birds here, but the snake figure as seen with some of these mythological images is typically just noted as a 'poisonous snake' in lieu of the dragons in mythology.

The map shows French interests c.1898, in pink.

28th January 2011, 05:55 PM	#1
ericlaude Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 187	Unusual Shotel Good morning has all, This Thread is for specialist of Ethiopian Shotel, if one of them can tell me more about this unusual shotel. The strong handle is made in horn ( Rhino?), the pommel , the ferule and the guard are made in solid brass. its measre 36" Ovl 28" for the blade and large 2,2". It weighs 1,2Kg. Thank you in advance Best regards Eric Attached Images

28th January 2011, 05:57 PM	#2
ericlaude Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 187	Seconds pictures Attached Images

28th January 2011, 06:50 PM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	A REMARKABLE SWORD. I WOULD SAY IT IS EUROPEAN MADE POSSIBLY GERMAN ,THE HORN HANDLE LOOKS MORE LIKE WATER BUFFALOW HORN NOT RHINO HARD TO TELL FROM THE PICTURES. IT DOES HAVE THE ETCHED AND BLUED BLADE WITH THE ETHIOPIAN ROYAL LION AS OFTEN SEEN ON IMPORTED GERMAN BLADES. IT INCORPORATES SOME TRUE ETHIOPIAN DESIGN BUT IS ARTISTICALLY MODIFIED TOWARD MOSTLY EUROPEAN DESIGN. VERY PLEASING TO THE EYE AND LIKELY ONE OF A KIND. WITH BETTER PICTURES PERHAPS SOMEONE CAN READ THE INSCRIPTION ON THE BLADE. MY GUESS IS THIS WAS SPECIALLY MADE TO BE PRESENTED TO A PERSON OF IMPORTANCE IN ETHIOPIA. PERHAPS THE INSCRIPTION MAY SHED SOME LIGHT ON WHO MADE IT OR WHO IT WAS PRESENTED TO. GOOD LUCK Last edited by VANDOO; 28th January 2011 at 11:35 PM.

29th January 2011, 06:52 AM	#6
roanoa Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 235	Absolutely fantastic piece. Trade? Sell? Just asking.... The inscription on the blade is backwards. Flip it 180 and it will read ITIYOPIA: TEBETSEHE: IDEWIHA: BEIGHEZEE'EBIHER:: That is: Ethiopia reaches out to to God. It is one of the most common inscription found. It is written in Ge'ez: the ancient language used by the Ethiopian Coptic Church. The faces are those of Menelik II, Zewuditu (Empress) and (this is a guess..) Lij Eyasu. I have seen (and have one myself) some straight bladed SAIF swords with the same faces and inscription. I would say these blades are German. But...?? British is another guess. I will venture to say that the hilt was retrofitted. Maybe at the factory itself so that the blade could be handled. By the way, the hilt was mounted backwards as the shotel will have the tip pointing towards the opponent. Also, the red felt spacer would not make sense on a leather scabbard. Then again, I doubt this blade ever had a scabbard. Hilt looks Victorian. Not rhino. In any case, it is wonderful. Attached Images Last edited by roanoa; 29th January 2011 at 07:08 AM.

29th January 2011, 11:56 AM	#7
ericlaude Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 187	For the moment, just asking and showing, many thanks for yours reply, I will showing more details of the faces. Attached Images Last edited by ericlaude; 29th January 2011 at 05:26 PM.

28th January 2011, 08:49 PM	#4
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Definitly the best i have ever seen!!!!!!!!!!!!. What a find!!!!!!......Dave.

29th January 2011, 04:29 AM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	WW!

30th January 2011, 12:30 AM	#8
Mauro Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 83	Hello everybody, very nice shotel. Regarding the blade it could also be French: difficult to say. Roanoa is right that the same trylogy (Menelik, Eyasu and Taitu) is found also in other blades from England or Germany. However, the pommel with this classic head also has a French smell with this Greek hero and a classic helmet. The helmet has what appers to be a falcon but I do not see well if there is also a snake. It would be necessary a detailed photo on this part. On the side of the helmet seems that there is a sphinx. My knowledge of classics are not strong enough to recognize the God depicted in the Pommel. The falcon and the snake are sacred to Horus and Horus is compared to Apollo but this is only a supposition. France ??

30th January 2011, 09:55 PM	#9
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 841	Exquisite blade !!! As far as the handle is concerned, I think there are two possibilities - either made as it is as a gift for some of the Rases, or replacement /?/(two blades similiar to this (gilded) which I have seen had handles made of top grade reddish rhino horns...) (Roanoa, I cannot read geez, but I often heard another, maybe liberal translation: "And Ethiopia reaches out its hands skywards" - which should be citation from

30th January 2011, 09:59 PM	#10
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 841	sorry - finger slipped on keyboard, so: ...which should be citation from the New Testament. Or is it totaly another woprding?)

31st January 2011, 01:18 AM	#11
roanoa Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 235	Hi Martin. The inscription is taken indeed from the Coptic Bible and could be read as "Ethiopia asks for God's help", "Ethiopia reaches out to God", "Ethiopia holds its hands up to God". Liberal translations, but meaning the same thing. I understand Haile Selassie closed his speech to the League of Nation protesting the Italian invasion of his country with these words. The catalogues of Julius Voos and Eickhorn (both from Solingen) and of Wilkinson show that the blades, even the more fancy ones, were supplied without hilt and scabbard. I believe the hilt (mounted BACKWARD) is either a replacement or it was mounted at the factory on the "salesman sample" to better handle the blade. Fantastic piece, regardless. Do you happen to have pictures of the shotels you refer too?

31st January 2011, 08:54 AM	#12
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 841	Hi Roanoa, One of the blades is at home - in Prague, I do not have picture and unfortunately I will be there in half a year. Nevertheless this is not shotel - but Ethiopian saif with straight, Wilkinson blade. There ere still traces of gilding in etched design. Another one, in this case shotel, I saw in Ethiopia cca 15 years ago. At home I have also gorade(shabola) with etched real partrait of young man, some peaople said it was young Haile Sellassie from his Harrar times, when he was cca 15 (?) years old. When I am back in Prague, I will post it.

31st January 2011, 09:40 PM	#13
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	spelling I am probably way off but take a long hard look at the helmet on the head pommel knob. I may well be French. The winged sphinx is seems a hang over from the French exploits in Egypt. Look at the side view, the crest is an eagle. The face on view ie the beak is more stylised but it does have a snake in its mouth. I think that is most intesting considering French action in Mexico. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 31st January 2011 at 09:51 PM.

31st January 2011, 10:20 PM	#14
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	You can google "eagle eating snake imagery" but not much for "falcon eating snake imagery"

31st January 2011, 10:47 PM	#15
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,954	Truly remarkable piece. I would say that the hunting hanger style grip represents distinct European style for earlier court oriented weapons, and the neo-classical figure on the pommel suggests French hilting. I would say this is probably a diplomatically intended presentation or gift to a figure in important standing in Abyssinia. This high end piece might have to do with dealings during the Anglo Egyptian condominium and post Fashoda incident (1898) territorial disputes in these regions between that and France. The blade to me seems German. It is tempting to align the fluer de lis style in the quillons to France also. Last edited by Jim McDougall; 1st February 2011 at 09:18 PM. Reason: typo in wording

31st January 2011, 10:56 PM	#16
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	As roanoa has already pointed out that the handle is on the wrong way round. The shotel is used with the concave edge leading. Why could this be?

1st February 2011, 03:10 AM	#18
roanoa Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 235	Just for the fun of it, since I am not that much into mythology, that does not look like a Sphinx to me... A Chimera? Not that it makes much of a difference....

1st February 2011, 03:16 AM	#19
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Could one suggest the unsuggestable word here ? Begins with a 'C' ... <ducks and covers> Last edited by Rick; 1st February 2011 at 03:34 AM.

1st February 2011, 05:59 PM	#20
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Okay. winged lion sphinx like thing . Attached Images

1st February 2011, 11:39 PM	#21
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,954	While the intense debate continues on the pommel figure, I am as always distracted by trying to learn more on the possible history of this potentially presentation or diplomatic gift grade shotel. For those readers out there also considering that aspect of the sword, I wanted to note some things I discovered on the geopolitical situation in Ethiopia c.1890s. Menelik II (r.1889-1913) was in power in then Abysssinia, the British were trying to stabilize the Sudanese regions after the demise of the Mahdi, and were prepared to acknowledge Italian suzereinty in Ethiopian regions. France however was encouraging Menelik to oppose the Italian threat by delineating the borders of his empire. They had already been granted the authority by Menelik to build a railroad from Addis Ababa to Djibouti (French Somaliland). They joined Menelik in 1898 to penetrate the Sudan against the British at Fashoda in the strained conflicts which ultimately resulted in the Tripartite treat of Dec. 13,1906 between the UK, France and Ethiopia. Since it seems to me that the character of this 'shotel' reflects prevalent French character (the pommel is likely the neoclassic image of Mars/Ares), with likely a German made blade, the events of these times suggest the possible diplomatic nature of this sword. I have seen another diplomatically oriented sword with similar blued and gilt blade motif including Amharic inscription, Lion of Judah and regalia type images, on a European style sabre blade, this one during the rule of Theodore. While unclear exactly which event or figures this sword may pertain to or more definite date, it seems worthy to consider those described as being possibilities. In the attached, image of Mars as often portrayed in neoclassic motif, not with snake or birds here, but the snake figure as seen with some of these mythological images is typically just noted as a 'poisonous snake' in lieu of the dragons in mythology. The map shows French interests c.1898, in pink. Attached Images