Circassian dagger from Turkey

gp · 27th May 2022, 09:28 PM

This is what my Turkish seller told me on the 2 pieces I bought:

Circassian antique niello silver dagger and leather sheat from 1910
Steel blade has blood channels on both sides & handle consists of niello silver and boxwood parts within its wooden sheat covered with leather

* 29.5cm (11.5/8") in length

Ottoman Turkish antique dagger with bone handle & hand forged steel blade having blood channels.
From the end of C 19th, Ottoman Turkish antique dagger with bone handle & hand forged steel blade marked/signed in the mid three times in Ottoman .
The blade has a point and dual edges channeled with various fullers, blood ways on both sides and marked in the mid.

* 36.2cm by 3.9cm (14.1/4" by 1.1/2")

So what do you think, your opinion please...
FYI: they have not arrived yet.

thnx a lot! Gunar

ariel · 27th May 2022, 10:29 PM

The curved one is a Surmene knife, quite nice. The straight one is badly shortened, essentially dead, can’t say much about it, but can’t find anything Circassian.

gp · 28th May 2022, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

The curved one is a Surmene knife, quite nice. The straight one is badly shortened, essentially dead, can’t say much about it, but can’t find anything Circassian.

Thnx, concerning the straight one I was also thinking a little in the direction of a khanjali from the Caucasus but also Turkey has traditional similar daggers in the Afyon region. I agree nothing Circassian.

francantolin · 29th May 2022, 10:26 AM

Really nice ottoman surmene knife !
Here another one.

I never saw one with silver niello parts,

east neighbours influence ...

ariel · 29th May 2022, 02:49 PM

Agree with Francantolin. Surmene is a Turkish town located in the Trabzon province , east of Trabzon proper, and is right smack in the center of Lazistan.
Whether Lazes are ethnically Muslim Georgians ( Georgian version), distinct sub-ethnicity of Turks ( Turkish version) or a separate ethnicity altogether is immaterial. Similarly, whether the technique of niello was transmitted from Lazes to Georgians or vice versa, or was brought to both by Greeks is currently impossible to figure out.

At the end of the day geography is the defining factor: Lazes and South Western Georgians lived next to each other by centuries, the borders were practically nonexistent and changed multiple times. Thus, it is not surprising that they shared decorative techniques.

It is a very pretty and old Surmene knife made for a well-off person.

27th May 2022, 09:28 PM	#1
gp Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 723	Circassian dagger from Turkey This is what my Turkish seller told me on the 2 pieces I bought: Circassian antique niello silver dagger and leather sheat from 1910 Steel blade has blood channels on both sides & handle consists of niello silver and boxwood parts within its wooden sheat covered with leather * 29.5cm (11.5/8") in length Ottoman Turkish antique dagger with bone handle & hand forged steel blade having blood channels. From the end of C 19th, Ottoman Turkish antique dagger with bone handle & hand forged steel blade marked/signed in the mid three times in Ottoman . The blade has a point and dual edges channeled with various fullers, blood ways on both sides and marked in the mid. * 36.2cm by 3.9cm (14.1/4" by 1.1/2") So what do you think, your opinion please... FYI: they have not arrived yet. thnx a lot! Gunar Attached Images

27th May 2022, 10:29 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	The curved one is a Surmene knife, quite nice. The straight one is badly shortened, essentially dead, can’t say much about it, but can’t find anything Circassian.

29th May 2022, 02:49 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Agree with Francantolin. Surmene is a Turkish town located in the Trabzon province , east of Trabzon proper, and is right smack in the center of Lazistan. Whether Lazes are ethnically Muslim Georgians ( Georgian version), distinct sub-ethnicity of Turks ( Turkish version) or a separate ethnicity altogether is immaterial. Similarly, whether the technique of niello was transmitted from Lazes to Georgians or vice versa, or was brought to both by Greeks is currently impossible to figure out. At the end of the day geography is the defining factor: Lazes and South Western Georgians lived next to each other by centuries, the borders were practically nonexistent and changed multiple times. Thus, it is not surprising that they shared decorative techniques. It is a very pretty and old Surmene knife made for a well-off person.