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#181 |
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You are an eternal cavalier Jim,
Critisizing or rebuting the same reference once or twice doesn't make it an endless target for pneumatic hammer activities ![]() ![]() I did like your approach on the syncretism phenomena when attending to the melange of European and African symbology. I am translating a Belgium paper on Congolese colonial swords compiled from various researchers and it all appoints that the perforated cross on the quillon discs of swords introduced by Portuguese would be one of such archetypes. . Last edited by fernando; 12th September 2017 at 11:40 AM. Reason: spell |
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#182 |
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Jim, your post at 180 states The 'Sendai' example of c.1613 in Japan is another example of this distinct hilt form with what appears a 'foreign' blade type. Again, it serves as an example of this hilt in terminus post quem with well established provenance.[/QUOTE]
************************************************** ********* Salaams Jim, It is indeed the case that the Sendai Museum example is something of an anomaly since the blade is probably oriental; perhaps Chinese as the detail from the thread shows. This is absolutely not Sri Lankan and is a heavy Machete form blade. This is not entirely unexpected in a location like the Filipines where a ship borne weapon rehilted and likely as a ships cutlass type was discovered in the market place by Hasekura ..It is without scabbard... not surprisingly. It therefor joins the story somewhat in the shade since it is a rehilt and out of area at that. It is, however, an interesting diversion. In fact it is recorded here ... Japan in Philippine history By Ambeth R. Ocampo Philippine Daily Inquirer 10:42 pm | Thursday, October 31st, 2013 Quote"Hasekura Tsunenaga was a Japanese samurai who was received in Mexico, Spain, the Vatican, and the Philippines as a Spanish ambassador in a romantic seven-year journey. He was given an audience by King Philip III in Madrid, was baptized at the Real Monasterio de Descalzas Reales where the Duke Lerma stood as ninong, then was received by Pope Paul V and granted honorary citizenship by the City of Rome. Hasekura’s last stop was Manila, where he wrote a cheerful letter to his son in 1619 saying he was shopping and preparing to sail home. The original letter is displayed in the Sendai City Museum together with an Indonesian kris and a dagger from Sri Lanka that Hasekura acquired in the Philippines. (Not in the exhibition are archival documents on the Hasekura mission from the Archivo General de Indias in Sevilla written during Hasekura’s stay in Manila: an inventory of presents sent to the Shogun by the Governor-General of the Philippines.) There is an interesting background description to the Kris at forum on http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...ht=kris+kastane by A.G. MAISEY that is essential background reading and from which I have recovered the picture below. See also http://www.japanartsandcrafts.com/8212.html Indonesian kris and Ceylonese dagger (acquired in the Philippines), presented by Hasekura to Date Masamune upon his return; Quote"Sendai City Museum Hasekura reported his travels to Date Masamune upon his arrival in Sendai. It is recorded that he remitted a portrait of Pope Paul V, a portrait of himself in prayer, and a set of Ceylonese and Indonesian daggers acquired in the Philippines, all preserved today in the Sendai City Museum."Unquote Shown below clearly the tip of the Sendai Museum example showing typical Chinese decoration...on a broad heavy Machete style. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 9th September 2017 at 10:19 AM. |
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#183 |
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On reflection my impression is of an oriental broad Machete blade of the style Yu Tao Dao better known as a Fish Head or Shark Head Sabre. Here is an example to compare shown below with a white hilt;
The monster fish decoration can be seen near the tip of the Sendai example and compares below with decoration at the throat of the weapon placed by The Late Vandoo (RIP) at thread on another Chinese weapon. I believe the fish monster is the Makara and support that with detail at http://bharatkalyan97.blogspot.com/2...al-makara.html where about 20 examples exist some going back to Chinese cave detai in the 5th Century AD. The stone Makara carving is evidence of the Makara form on the sendai example etc. The big picture is Chinese whilst the smaller is in Lucknow Museum. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 9th September 2017 at 10:48 AM. |
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#184 |
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Ibrahiim, , once again your tenacious online research amazes me!
I have been going through these old threads, notes and references, and trying to regain my footing in these discussions over the years. It seems that the manner of investigative study into the history of many weapon forms becoming an often complex, tedious and frustrating process involving many side roads, red herrings and misconceptions. In looking back at the discussions here, we can see many losing patience with the often highly detailed presentations of support and evidence. However, it is through these kinds of discussions that so much is achieved in better understanding the history of these arms. I had honestly forgotten the nature of the 'Sendai' example, and that it was indeed a Chinese blade with the mythical beast head situated in the blade decoration. It is clearly coupled with a hilt of Ceylonese character, and as noted was apparently acquired as a souvenier along with a keris in Manila near the end of the Keisho mission about 1619. I think the point of these comparisons is mostly noting the widespread influence of these distinctively styled hilts, whether directly from examples actually of Sri Lankan origin, or variant interpretations which seem to have occurred in many other cultural spheres. We know that in Holland in the 17th c, numerous hilts on hangers and other edged weapons reflect such influences with mythical beasts and figures that appear Asian , some very much like the Buddhist style lion heads. In these times the portrait of Alexander Popham wearing what appears to be a kastane in about mid 17th century suggests the favor for such exotica among merchants and as status oriented dress weapons. It is typically difficult, at least for me, to determine exactly what most of these mythical creatures actually represent as there seems to be a degree of latitude in how they are interpreted. However it appears that the range of interpretation has resulted from the artistic perception of local artisans who are fashioning from the influence of the varied forms which have diffused into many areas. In once again looking to the 'Benin' sword, which is a interesting example of such interpretation, it appears of course that this indirect influence may have had some part in the zoomorphic form of the hilt. As Ibrahiim has well pointed out, the Dahomean ruler Glele (1858-1898) did use the lion as one of his leitmotif. It would seem that most of the ceremonial swords would carry such symbolism on the blade rather than in zoomorphic form on the hilt. This is where I think the 'Cingalese' influence suggested by Daehnhardt derives (interestingly the example with gold lion on the blade Ibrahiim showed has similar blade with mid rib at forte) and the openwork cross and the downturned quillons reflect Portuguese influence. In both instances, these influences are traditionally applied as they refer to influences long since removed from Dahomean regions. |
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#185 |
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[QUOTE=Jim McDougall]Ibrahiim, , once again your tenacious online research amazes me!
I have been going through these old threads, notes and references, and trying to regain my footing in these discussions over the years. It seems that the manner of investigative study into the history of many weapon forms becoming an often complex, tedious and frustrating process involving many side roads, red herrings and misconceptions. In looking back at the discussions here, we can see many losing patience with the often highly detailed presentations of support and evidence. However, it is through these kinds of discussions that so much is achieved in better understanding the history of these arms. I had honestly forgotten the nature of the 'Sendai' example, and that it was indeed a Chinese blade with the mythical beast head situated in the blade decoration. It is clearly coupled with a hilt of Ceylonese character, and as noted was apparently acquired as a souvenier along with a keris in Manila near the end of the Keisho mission about 1619. I think the point of these comparisons is mostly noting the widespread influence of these distinctively styled hilts, whether directly from examples actually of Sri Lankan origin, or variant interpretations which seem to have occurred in many other cultural spheres. We know that in Holland in the 17th c, numerous hilts on hangers and other edged weapons reflect such influences with mythical beasts and figures that appear Asian , some very much like the Buddhist style lion heads. In these times the portrait of Alexander Popham wearing what appears to be a kastane in about mid 17th century suggests the favor for such exotica among merchants and as status oriented dress weapons. It is typically difficult, at least for me, to determine exactly what most of these mythical creatures actually represent as there seems to be a degree of latitude in how they are interpreted. However it appears that the range of interpretation has resulted from the artistic perception of local artisans who are fashioning from the influence of the varied forms which have diffused into many areas. Salaams Jim, Thank you for your post. I would now like to play the devils advocate in regard to the Sendai Museum "Kastane" and aim to prove that this is indeed an early Sinhalese fighting weapon; purely and almost 100%. References; A. http://bharatkalyan97.blogspot.com/...ral-makara.html B. POST # 182 AND 183 of this thread http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...d=1#post220663 C. The sister Thread at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14998 D. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haseku...a#cite_note-25 E. http://www.japanartsandcrafts.com/8212.html In following up on the decorative Makara design on the Sendai blade it struck me that there was no difference in the Indian Makara and the Srilankan ...I was further concerned that a blade expert, Hasekura, a Samurai, had not noted anything awry in the blade chosen when he was on the return journey and in the Filipines, Manila where they docked in 20 June 1618 and remained there for about 2 years. After the purchases of the two swords as presents he wrote from there to his son. In describing the Sendai weapon I must point out that it is correct Kastane form with hilt and vajra quillons as well as knuckleguard and is decorated on a broad machete style blade with a Makara decoration toward the tip. The decoration is typical of Sri Lankan and Indian form and echoed with similar but not exact Makara across the Buddhist Hindu spectrum. The blade shape is not known precisely. The closest Makara resemblance is at the Museum in Lahore as a stone block engraving carved on a solid rock slab. Thus most of the weapon is Sri Lankan with the question of what is the blade? yet to be proven. Since the decoration is Makara and of the Sri Lankan form it, the blade, although not yet identified must be considered as Sri Lankan. As a samurai and blade specialist Hasekura must have known that this was a blade of some importance and probably not a rehilt. As a matter of interest most Kastane only appeared in the 18th C and with the Dutch to begin with...and the civil servants or Mudaliers as badge of rank insignia and court swords. Before and during that period it would be difficult to attribute blades since there are hardly two the same and where blades were fitted they were often European and all different. It would therefor not be unreasonable to assume that this habit telescoped back in time on the fore runner to the Kastane in the Portuguese period and beyond where choice blades from different countries were fitted to a style recognizable as Kastane but more austere as fighting weapons. Such blades could have come from a number of places including the Iberian Peninsula and http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...p?t=8404&page=3 at post #62 shows a similar shaped blade. The decoration could have been added in S.E. Asia and transmitted via trade to the Philipines. Since no boundaries are set because the type of sword had by fashion a blade fitted at the owners discretion numerous other forms of similar type would be perfectly suitable in this early weapon including storta and other blades from the orient including Chinese ... There were perhaps no rules and regulations. It was the fashion. Such was the importance of the weapon that he had it engraved with his personal stamp between the Vajra quilons. (Below). This may well have been because the weapon was related to a question of religion and perhaps linked to his conversion to Christianity. The Catholic conversions in the Filipines and in Sri Lanka may have given rise to this affiliation of ideas and his crest had a cross at the top. It should be remembered that the point of the mission was linked to Japan possibly being a convert to Christianity and the meetings all along were of a religious nature. (See Reference E.) Regarding Vajra Quilons; Whereas the function on a normal sword is to dislodge the opponents sword by trapping the blade with the Quillons and giving strength to the hilt generally...it may be observed that in Machete style there is little time or function in trying to trap the opponents blade...This is a chopping slashing weapon thus any blows to the cross-guard would be dangerous with such a heavy blade thus cushioning of those blows could be the reason for inclusion on such a fighting weapon. It may be that this is the reason why the fighting weapon has quilons right against the blade narrowed throat...and why such a fashion passed on to the non combat role of the Kastane later. Note that the early stone Freize (Below)"Kastane" does not have Quilons but this may be down to the Portuguese carver who cannot be blamed for missing out such a trivial item nor for possibly getting the cross guard wrong. The stone carving was something of a hearsay project and done some time after the event. Although slightly unreliable it is interesting for its broad blade and lion head format very similar indeed to the Sendai example. What appears missing in the Sendai is the scabbard however, I show below three swords from a woodcut in Early Sri Lankan illustrations where similar blades appear (and the immediate words Machete Blades!! is distinctly heard) with no scabbards. (Below) Although no scabbard is present it could be that no scabbard was worn in the fighting style and shown similarly at the 3 woodcuts and in the stone freize here. Although no exact blade has been yet identified the terrain in Sri Lanka like a lot of South East Asia is jungle and bush therefor a Gollock or Machete blade is probably not uncommon although it can be seen how foreign weapons entered local service with items like the Partisan spear and other styles brought by the invaders that could have displaced this weapon. Neither is it beyond the spheres of possibility that a blade like this could have found its way into the system regionally since by about 1500 trade in the Indian Ocean was dominated by Arab, Indian, Malay, and Chinese merchants, who together used various seafaring craft to transport a spectrum of cargo, from spices to elephants. It is suggested that the fighting weapon was later Iconised and became a court sword and badge of rank mirroring the old fighting sword in many respects but becoming a dress sword and badge of rank indicator only. In terms of timeline an interesting hilt of carved Ivory is shown from the V and A as possibly 15th C and Upper section of a hilt for a Sinhalese sword (kastanaya) carved in the form of a mythical lion (sinha). When acquired, it was reported that this hilt had been presented to an ancestoral member of the Weerasingha family by Parakrama Bahu VI, ruler of the kingdom of Kotte (r. 1410-62). Well before the Portuguese. In summary the Sendai Example may now be considered as all Sri Lankan whilst not including the blade that was by choice decided upon by the owner and perhaps from Europe or India/Asia/China.. and conforms to a decorative blade Makara aspect as well as sporting the correct hilt, knuckle and cross guards with supporting Vajra Quilons of "The Kastane". Below pictures in no particular order 1. Sendai Museum Hilt. 2. Hasekura Ships Pendant. 3. Sendai Museum blade detail and Hasekura Crest. 4. 3 sketch/woodcuts with broad sword machete detail...no scabbard? 5. Ivory Hilt pre Portuguese. 6. The Pinhao sword stone carving. 7. North Indian Makara carving. 8. Letter from Hasekura in Manila to son. In Sendai Museum. 9. Document with sketch of Hasekura in Rome where he converted ...showing Crest in top right corner. 10. Another North Indian Makara. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 11th September 2017 at 06:17 PM. |
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#186 |
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Continuation and addition to the above Post...A clearer picture of the Sendai Kastane..From https://sirimunasiha.wordpress.com/a...la-matchlocks/ which as a matter of interest claims the blade is Portuguese !!
![]() The Hasekura stamp or coat of arms (Inverted) between the Vajra Quilons must have been carried out in Manila or at sea on the way to Japan. Perhaps Hasekura saw this as being a Christian countries weapon... Catholic. Thus he had his stamp placed on it (his stamp contains a cross.) and not realizing the disaster awaiting him in Japan where all his family, supporters and friends were to be executed soon after he arrived because of a purge against Christianity. Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 11th September 2017 at 06:18 PM. |
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#187 |
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To show further the broad regional influence of Makara Design/ Decoration. From Tibet and China in pictures below.
WITH SUCH A VAST DISTRIBUTION THE QUESTION HAS TO BE FROM WHERE DID THE MAKARA ON THE SENDAI ORIGINATE? ...SINCE HERE ARE 10 COUNTRIES IN THE FRAME WITH STONE CARVINGS ~ Makara in the Nanpaya Temple, Bagan, Borneo. Makara at Sambor Prei Kuk Temple, Kampong Thom Town, Cambodia. Makara in the north of the Qi dynasty (EC 550-577) in China. Makara and Kirtimukha protecting the portal of the Chennakesava Temple in Belur, India. Sculptures of Makara at Candi Kalasan Temple, Indonesia. Makara in Wat (Temple) ThatPhun, Vientiane, Laos. Makara of the seventh century AD. in the National Museum of Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Makara and Kirtimukha at the Hindu Temple in Kathmandu, Nepal. Makara with Nagas, Wat (Temple) Suthat, Bangkok, Thailand. Cham Naga god coming out of Makara's mouth at the National History Museum of Vietnam. Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 12th September 2017 at 02:00 PM. |
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#188 |
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In terms of a home grown Machete in Sri Lanka there is of course... THE Veecharuval ... seen below as a broad bladed weapon on a black backround and a tip somewhat upturned which could be remodeled with a clipped tip etc...Shown also Falchion capable of being refitted and made to look like the Machete form we are observing in both the Pihao stone freize and the Sendai. I include the sketch of Dutch landing in Eastern Ceylon early in the Portuguese period..and the Machete weapon in the hands of a tribal warrior also very like the Machete style under scrutiny.
![]() Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 14th September 2017 at 10:17 PM. |
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#189 |
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Another region ....The Malibar Coast has been examined for Makara decorated blades...See below the Ayda Katti or Moplah. In the case of the shorter bladed weapon sometimes called a South Indian cleaver...The sword was without a scabbard, being held in a wide belt worn on the back. Both styles showing the distinctive Makara on the blades...in these examples at the throat.
Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 15th September 2017 at 11:53 PM. |
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#190 |
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Could it be that the Sri Lankan weapon shown here in a simple woodcut is in fact a Falchion ...see example.
This is an early landing by a Dutch group in Eastern Sri Lanka where the right hand tribal warrior is holding a similar weapon...Is this the Falchion? A remarkably similar weapon to the Stone Freize weapon. This picture(kNOX) with RELATION DE CEYLAN has another warrior at right with a similar weapon... A picture in the hands of a European is shown to compare ... Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 21st September 2017 at 09:38 PM. |
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#191 |
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Further reference showing the Buddhist influence on sword design in some cases as far afield as Japan. The use of Vajra as Quilons on these swords is apparent and widespread.
Below: 1. Japanese Buddha Statue with Sword; Illustrating Vajra Quillons. 2. Kastane for comparison. |
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#192 |
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Illustration of Vajra Quillons on an Indian Tulvar Hilt. The architecture on the Quillons and on the Knuckleguard is virtually identical to that on the Kastane shown for comparison.
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#193 |
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It is quite rare to find accurate well preserved examples of Makara and Vajra Quillons on blades and hilts thus when one appears it truly shows the architectural influence across regions when considered in a religious viewpoint in this case Buddhist. This has proved a link to the sword decoration on Sri Lankan Kastane and on other weapons in the region from many sources including Tibet in the case of this example, India and other Eastern countries.
Of special note the Makara present on this and the Sendai Museum blade at #185 springs to mind when considering Makara on blades pointing firmly to this Buddhist influence and away from any European design impact. Whilst this Purba is 19thC or before many go back to 10TH OR 11 THC or before. Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 7th October 2017 at 01:48 AM. |
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#194 |
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Please note that There are 11 pages of Buddhist Tibbettan Purba religious objects at z.pinterest.com/pin/360076932690957766/ contains about 11 pages of Purba and is worth reading for its content.
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#195 |
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Following on from thread and above I illustrate here the evidence of cross regional influence from Buddhist sword architecture from ceremonial religious themes onto The Sri Lankan Kastane; The Quillons. This is the second statue of Buddha and similar to the figure at #191 previously. Secondary influence can be seen in Phurba and Vajra examples previously.
This clue first came to my attention from a Met Museum annual publication and here from an excellent picture from the web. It illustrated the application of an apparent quillons structure ~ however it has to be borne in mind that this type of quillon and indeed the sword form were not battle mode weapons... neither, in fact, was the Sri Lankan Kastane to which it was design related. The important lesson here is that this design as with much of the Kastane reflected from neighboring regions including Tibet, India and as far afield as Japan in the religious sense and that far from being a European design this was essentially Home Grown and from regional influence. The Met write up includes the date of this statue. Viz; 12thC. From https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/44842 Quote"Fudō Myōō (Achala-vidyārāja), 12th century. Japan. The Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York. The Harry G. C. Packard Collection of Asian Art, Gift of Harry G. C. Packard, and Purchase, Fletcher, Rogers, Harris Brisbane Dick, and Louis V. Bell Funds, Joseph Pulitzer Bequest, and The Annenberg Fund Inc. Gift, 1975 (1975.268.163) | Fudō Myōō uses his sword to cut through ignorance and his lasso to reign in those who would block the path to enlightenment. #sword''Unquote. Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 21st October 2017 at 05:59 PM. |
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#196 |
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Viewing Kastane hilts through different eyes brings a differing perspective on an interesting subject. Since the historical meaning is shrouded in history and the zoomorphic licence to create a variety of Iconic creatures is very much up to the specialist artisan working in the Royal Workshops many features on the hilt are changed to meet the multi faceted nature of the sword..and bearing in mind its non battle application and its respected place as a badge of office and rank in society.
Below are some examples of the different styles. |
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#197 |
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One particular aspect of the Kastane design has been very difficult to picture since it is not on all variants and is difficult to see unless the sword is turned through 90 degrees; I refer to what is known as a humano-crocodile face on the knuckleguard illustrated on this sold item below although it is termed a fanged demon~
I refer to another on Forum Library at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...1&postcount=48 Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 5th November 2017 at 12:33 PM. |
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#198 | |
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The one being held by the gloved individual(post #196 upper left photo) is one that was found, if I recall, in Vancouver, British Columbia, and there was a great discussion of how in the world a Sinhalese sword ended up there around the turn of the century c.1800. There were some entries in I believe a trade ledger of the company there which described a number of 'dragon swords'. As we have seen with the Hasekura example in Japan which seems to have filtered through trade in the Philippines, it has been suggested Spanish trade may have been involved. |
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#199 |
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Salaams Jim, The Vancouver situation is very interesting although I have no idea how it turned up there..
Although the Papal act gave the Indian Ocean to Portugal and South America to the Spanish (for exploration etc), I know that Spanish ships were also in the region..and discovered the shorter route rather than having to haul via Acupulco to The Filipines etc. How the Sendai item arrived in the Filipines is a mystery and who put the blade and hilt together? ...or in fact if it is original is a further puzzle. The difficulty attached to the Sendai Museum is what blade is shown there? It has a Makara on the blade which could be either Chinese or Indian..Technically it could even be Sri Lankan. It is a problem as previously discussed and the blade itself is very heavy by comparison to a normal Kastane...and more like the stone carving, ...however, it is extremely difficult to compare a carved item with an actual blade...and whereas the other potential assist via the Leeds museum is a painting with a sheathed Kastane (On The Popham armour)...is thus equally hard to compare. ![]() |
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Dutch involvement in the Dutch East Indies has spawned an unlikely transfer of design. The pommel design of the Sri Lankan Kastane appears on the Dogs Head Royal Navy Cutlass; The 1720 Dog head. See the European Forum #1 at~!
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23367 and below ~ Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 17th November 2017 at 03:05 AM. |
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Linking two sites here on Library see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...340#post224340
~since clearly the two weapons the Castane and the Piha Kaetta were probably made at the same time and in the same workshops...illustrated by the similar finish to the end of the scabbards in either case... being a Parrots head form. Kastana The national sword of Ceylon. Typically a short curved single-edged watered blade, double-edged at the point. The hilt comprises a knuckle-guard and down-turned quillons, each terminating in a dragon's head with large in-set eyes. The dragon's head is usually decorated throughout with gold or silver panels and the pommel with tongue is formed from a piece of wood or red coral. The dragon's mane trails down the grip and is decorated with silver and gilt repousse floral designs. The entire hilt is often made of silver or gold and even inlaid with jewels. The blade close to the hilt is decorated with floral or thatched designs. The scabbard is made from wood and is covered with embossed and chased silver worked with flowers with leafy borders and richly ornamental. The swords were intended to serve as badges of rank. Rev. James Cordiner in 1807 wrote that everyone in office wears a sword with a silver hilt and scabbard. These swords were made in the Royal workshops known as the "Rankadu Pattala" or "golden sword workshop" and the quality of the piece always depended on the rank of the wearer. |
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