Crowns on Aceh weapons revisited - Page 6

kai · 12th March 2018, 01:56 PM

Thanks, Willem! Makes you wonder what else is slipping under the radar...

asomotif · 12th March 2018, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Thanks, Willem! Makes you wonder what else is slipping under the radar...

Still things to wish for indeed, waiting in someone's drawer or attic.

Jentayu · 29th May 2019, 03:29 PM

Sewar with gold crown and suasa hilt

Jentayu · 29th May 2019, 03:31 PM

sewar

Battara · 30th May 2019, 03:39 AM

A beautiful example! Would you please show pictures of the whole piece?

Jentayu · 30th May 2019, 02:51 PM

Full picture of the sewar

Battara · 30th May 2019, 06:59 PM

Thank you so much!

One day when I grow up, I'll own an example just like this.

One more request: would you post a picture of the end of the pommel please?

Bob A · 30th May 2019, 09:47 PM

Unlike Jose, I have little hope of progressing to adulthood. If it hasn't happened yet, I doubt the day will arrive.

Meanwhile, a few pics of my crowned rencong. When I purchased it, I thought it was an unhappy marriage between blade and sheath. The seller told me that its rattling around in the large opening was typical of the are; I doubt it, as every other example of weaponry I have from the area is pretty snug. But who can say?

Anyway, there seems to be traces of gold in the punched decoration on one side of the piece. I assume the rest has been worn off over the years.

Battara · 31st May 2019, 05:17 AM

Nice Bob. I agree - there was originally gold in those worn down engraved grooves.

Jentayu · 31st May 2019, 02:27 PM

Picture of back of the pommel

Battara · 1st June 2019, 10:19 PM

Thank you so much. I am a little surprised that the top is flat and plain.

asomotif · 3rd June 2019, 12:13 AM

What a lovely and fine enamel decoration on this sewar.
I like the suasa handle.

Loedjoe · 5th June 2019, 05:21 PM

Here is another siwaih - not quite up to the high standard of many of the others shown in this thread.
Black wood hilt with highlights of reddish brown (ebony?), black wood sheath with dugong ivory tip and ivory projection. 42 cm, blade 27 cm (9 mm thick at the base), hilt 10.5 cm. A band presumably missing an inch or so below the top of the sheath.

Battara · 5th June 2019, 06:57 PM

Another wonder example, many thanks!

I would LOVE to have one of these!

Sajen · 5th June 2019, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loedjoe

Black wood hilt with highlights of reddish brown (ebony?),.....

Very nice example, like Jose I would like to have such an example in my collection! And yes, I think it's ebony. It's a worthy wood and not cheaper as akhar bahar or ivory!

Regards,
Detlef

Battara · 8th June 2019, 05:00 AM

I think you are right Detlef. As I re-examined the pictures, the material does look like makassar ebony at best (and purposely burned wood at the worst).

Almost makes me wonder if this was a replacement for broken akhar bahar or ivory.

kai · 8th June 2019, 11:17 PM

We really have to keep in mind that the most precious timbers can be more expensive and rarer than ivory or gold. In the good ol' days, the latter could be easily sourced if you had any decent amount of funds. Special wood like burl, especially with strong chatoyance, correct grain for carving, and possibly extra features needed to be searched for, cured for extended periods, and correctly selected by experienced artisans for the very task - it often wasn't at hand at the whim of the customer. If this hilt is antique, the selection of materials wasn't spurious...

I can't tell this wood from the pics. It seems to have rather large pores for any type of ebony. It might be one of the rarer hardwoods - tough to tell from pics!

Regards,
Kai

kai · 8th June 2019, 11:21 PM

Tim asked me to extend thanks to all who responded!

He seems to have problems with logging in and I hope he'll be back soon.

Regards,
Kai

Loedjoe · 21st August 2019, 12:52 PM

This sikin panjang (length 74.3 cm, blade 57 cm., no scabbard) has an unusual 'third' crown above a normal double crown. Has anyone seen a similar addition above the usual crown? And what was the purpose of it - to make a double crown into a triple one? Any comments from the experts would be most welcome.

kai · 22nd August 2019, 11:15 PM

Hello Tim,

Good to have you back!

I’d vote for 2.5.

The general crown type is of the glupa configuration (2 crowns), with an added ferrule-like ring as is also seen on a few rencong. I reckon this is an original design.

A nice addition to the family!

Regards,
Kai

A. G. Maisey · 22nd August 2019, 11:46 PM

This thread has been running for quite some time, but I have never looked at it previously.

When I look at these "crowns", it strikes me that I am looking at a representation of the tumpal motif.

Has anybody thought to investigate this?

thomas hauschild · 3rd November 2019, 07:31 AM

Asomotif asked me to show the crown on a sikin parang of my collection.

Not with gold inlay. Made of bronce maybe (or hopefully) made of souasa.

Best thomas

kai · 3rd November 2019, 07:39 PM

Certainly genuine and likely suasa - have it tested, Thomas!

I've seen a few in suasa without engraving nor enamel while I can't remember ever having seen one in gold without the traditional motifs (enamel can miss from older examples, probably from loss rather than original design).

Regards,
Kai

Jentayu · 19th January 2021, 01:42 PM

3 variations of Aceh siwah

kai · 19th January 2021, 09:04 PM

Wow, splendid examples, Jentayu!

Some more pics of those examples not posted before would be really kind!

Regards,
Kai

Battara · 20th January 2021, 01:58 AM

I want all 3 of them!

asomotif · 21st January 2021, 12:54 AM

Wow !

One day when I grow up I would like to have just one siwah like that.

Really nice, thank you for sharing.

Best regards,
Willem

asomotif · 25th September 2021, 01:11 PM

Just from sharing,
1 sikin from the sold items at MTW.
perfect condition with nice inlay in the blade.

asomotif · 29th September 2021, 02:34 PM

Here is one variation that I have never seen before.
A hulu Peusangan combined with a golden glupa.

Battara · 30th September 2021, 03:14 AM

I've seen it before, but it is truly rare, and I personally don't understand it.

29th May 2019, 03:29 PM	#153
Jentayu Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 61	Sewar with gold crown and suasa hilt Attached Images

29th May 2019, 03:31 PM	#154
Jentayu Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 61	sewar Attached Images

30th May 2019, 02:51 PM	#156
Jentayu Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 61	Full picture of the sewar Attached Images

30th May 2019, 09:47 PM	#158
Bob A Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 427	Unlike Jose, I have little hope of progressing to adulthood. If it hasn't happened yet, I doubt the day will arrive. Meanwhile, a few pics of my crowned rencong. When I purchased it, I thought it was an unhappy marriage between blade and sheath. The seller told me that its rattling around in the large opening was typical of the are; I doubt it, as every other example of weaponry I have from the area is pretty snug. But who can say? Anyway, there seems to be traces of gold in the punched decoration on one side of the piece. I assume the rest has been worn off over the years. Attached Images

31st May 2019, 02:27 PM	#160
Jentayu Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 61	Picture of back of the pommel Attached Images

12th March 2018, 01:56 PM	#151
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Thanks, Willem! Makes you wonder what else is slipping under the radar...

30th May 2019, 03:39 AM	#155
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	A beautiful example! Would you please show pictures of the whole piece?

30th May 2019, 06:59 PM	#157
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	Thank you so much! One day when I grow up, I'll own an example just like this. One more request: would you post a picture of the end of the pommel please?

31st May 2019, 05:17 AM	#159
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	Nice Bob. I agree - there was originally gold in those worn down engraved grooves.

1st June 2019, 10:19 PM	#161
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	Thank you so much. I am a little surprised that the top is flat and plain.

3rd June 2019, 12:13 AM	#162
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	What a lovely and fine enamel decoration on this sewar. I like the suasa handle.

5th June 2019, 05:21 PM	#163
Loedjoe Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Oxford (UK) Posts: 96	Crowns on Aceh weapons revisited Here is another siwaih - not quite up to the high standard of many of the others shown in this thread. Black wood hilt with highlights of reddish brown (ebony?), black wood sheath with dugong ivory tip and ivory projection. 42 cm, blade 27 cm (9 mm thick at the base), hilt 10.5 cm. A band presumably missing an inch or so below the top of the sheath. Attached Images

5th June 2019, 06:57 PM	#164
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	Another wonder example, many thanks! I would LOVE to have one of these!

8th June 2019, 05:00 AM	#166
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	I think you are right Detlef. As I re-examined the pictures, the material does look like makassar ebony at best (and purposely burned wood at the worst). Almost makes me wonder if this was a replacement for broken akhar bahar or ivory.

8th June 2019, 11:17 PM	#167
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	We really have to keep in mind that the most precious timbers can be more expensive and rarer than ivory or gold. In the good ol' days, the latter could be easily sourced if you had any decent amount of funds. Special wood like burl, especially with strong chatoyance, correct grain for carving, and possibly extra features needed to be searched for, cured for extended periods, and correctly selected by experienced artisans for the very task - it often wasn't at hand at the whim of the customer. If this hilt is antique, the selection of materials wasn't spurious... I can't tell this wood from the pics. It seems to have rather large pores for any type of ebony. It might be one of the rarer hardwoods - tough to tell from pics! Regards, Kai

8th June 2019, 11:21 PM	#168
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Tim asked me to extend thanks to all who responded! He seems to have problems with logging in and I hope he'll be back soon. Regards, Kai

21st August 2019, 12:52 PM	#169
Loedjoe Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Oxford (UK) Posts: 96	Is this a double or a triple crown? This sikin panjang (length 74.3 cm, blade 57 cm., no scabbard) has an unusual 'third' crown above a normal double crown. Has anyone seen a similar addition above the usual crown? And what was the purpose of it - to make a double crown into a triple one? Any comments from the experts would be most welcome. Attached Images

22nd August 2019, 11:15 PM	#170
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Tim, Good to have you back! I’d vote for 2.5. The general crown type is of the glupa configuration (2 crowns), with an added ferrule-like ring as is also seen on a few rencong. I reckon this is an original design. A nice addition to the family! Regards, Kai

22nd August 2019, 11:46 PM	#171
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	This thread has been running for quite some time, but I have never looked at it previously. When I look at these "crowns", it strikes me that I am looking at a representation of the tumpal motif. Has anybody thought to investigate this?

3rd November 2019, 07:31 AM	#172
thomas hauschild Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: Germany Posts: 139	Asomotif asked me to show the crown on a sikin parang of my collection. Not with gold inlay. Made of bronce maybe (or hopefully) made of souasa. Best thomas Attached Images Last edited by thomas hauschild; 3rd November 2019 at 08:04 AM.

3rd November 2019, 07:39 PM	#173
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Certainly genuine and likely suasa - have it tested, Thomas! I've seen a few in suasa without engraving nor enamel while I can't remember ever having seen one in gold without the traditional motifs (enamel can miss from older examples, probably from loss rather than original design). Regards, Kai

19th January 2021, 01:42 PM	#174
Jentayu Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 61	3 variations of Aceh siwah Attached Images

19th January 2021, 09:04 PM	#175
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Wow, splendid examples, Jentayu! Some more pics of those examples not posted before would be really kind! Regards, Kai

20th January 2021, 01:58 AM	#176
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	I want all 3 of them!

21st January 2021, 12:54 AM	#177
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	Wow ! One day when I grow up I would like to have just one siwah like that. Really nice, thank you for sharing. Best regards, Willem

25th September 2021, 01:11 PM	#178
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	Just from sharing, 1 sikin from the sold items at MTW. perfect condition with nice inlay in the blade. Attached Images

29th September 2021, 02:34 PM	#179
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	Here is one variation that I have never seen before. A hulu Peusangan combined with a golden glupa. Attached Images

30th September 2021, 03:14 AM	#180
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	I've seen it before, but it is truly rare, and I personally don't understand it.