Kattara for comments

[Jim McDougall]

The karabela hilt broadsword shown by A. Ainakkas is actually of a type mentioned in Elgood (1994, p.16) where they are described as with nimcha type blades, hilt karabella like in form with sheet or other metal partly covering the horn or wood grips. It is noted that Arabian traders claim these are often in suqs in Riyadh but are acquired in Yemen.
He also cites E.W.Lane writing in Cairo in 1835 ("The Modern Egyptians", 1836, repr. 1908) describing import and export of straight sword blades from Germany for the Nubians and that these are the type seen on kaskaras.
Actually the blades seen on kaskaras are occasionally seen on kattaras as far as I have seen and recalled, and it seems that a number of blades which are straight broadswords and with Amharic script and Lion of Judah intended for Abyssinia from German producers are found hilted in San'a.

The markings seen on this blade appear to be native applications of markings known on blades from the Kirschbaum group of manufacturers in Solingen, many of which amalgamated in the 19th century...the crescent moon and grouping of stars usually appeared with 6 stars, and sometimes with three and three crescents (Bezdek, p.152)and this may be interpretative version. German blades into the Condominium in Egypt after Omdurman and British occupation often entered Red Sea trade into Aden as well, and probably from there into Yemen into the 20th c.
These kinds of hilts are relatively common but usually have the shorter blades as noted.

The use of copied markings long established in Europe, particularly Solingen, is quite common on native blades in Sudan and Egypt. Typically these were seemingly chosen for talismanic value, perceived from the attention given to the original quality implication in trading the blades. While use of the running wolf had waned in Europe after the 18th century, it had found new life in Caucasian blades well known in Arabia from Ottoman presence, and was also known in the Sudan presumably from related trade networks of theRed Sea.

Best regards,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams !

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Thanks Ibrahim, Allah yebarek feek.

The blade is not like the Kattaras I've seen, its rigid and thick at the ricasso. the blade is very sharp at the tip. The only similarity to Kattara blades is the spatula shaped tip?

Salaams A.alnakkas, Nice sword it is indeed ! I suspect the tip is reworked to round it off in more or less spatulate form but I reckon it was pointed originally. What do you think?
This in no detracts from the sword and the blade is very thick perhaps 3 times or 4 times thicker at the riccasso than the Omani style Kattara which I am about to try to show are not a European blades but made in Ras Al Khaimah (The Head of the Tents) I believe the rounded cross section or as I call them wing shaped much less flexible blade form is a Saudia variant quite different in feel and handling to the flat cross sectioned very, very flexible Omani Kattara which easily bends through 90 degrees and springs back to shape immediately.
Regards Ibrahiim.
(I am in China this week)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by TVV

Sorry Ibrahim, the evidence is overwhelmingly in support of the use of trade blades on the longer, 18-19th century kattaras. If you go all the way back to the very first post in this thread you will see a kattara blade with a variety of markings - a termometer, eyelashes and crosses. All of those are quite common and can be traced back to well known earlier European examples.

Per Elgood, many of these blades were exported to Alexandria and Cairo, from where they were distributed throughout Arabia. If the Omanis were able to adopt the curved blade (most likely from Caucasian shashkas), then I do not see why they would not adopt the longer broadsword blade a century or so earlier, especially in light of the fact that German and Hungarian blades were very popular throughout the rest of the Arab Peninsula.

Personally, I think you put way too much stock in the cultural and religious barriers to the adoption of weapon forms, both in the case of the Omanis and the Portuguese. The hard evidence in the blades supports the theory that weapon forms diffused through trade, whereas your observations are so far entirely based on conjecture.

Regards,
Teodor

Salaams Teodor. Please understand that I only seek the facts whether they turn out as based upon a firm religious construction such as the Funun, or some other solid factual historical reference must be viewed in that light; Just the Facts.
I have discovered a possible and very strong likely source of weapons possibly stretching back down the ages centred on Ras Al Khaimah. Could it be that the Shihuh sword makers emigrated from Persia with this sword making expertise and produced in possibly the 8th C the old Omani Kattara with turned down quillons etc... Geographically it is a fit. It was all one country then. The camel train line links RAK with Nizwa.
Is it possible they continued to turn out swords and are solely responsible for the new Kattara which superceded the old Omani sword in the 17th /18th C.? Not withstanding some few hybrid or similar blades so tiny in number as to be perhaps not relevant to the real origin...RAK.
However what transpires is an eye opener; RAK makes Omani swords today. They use a variety of maker stamps some original, some copied. They use Lion, Crown, Star and Islamic verse God is Great etc and I have the pictures and have met the swordmakers. It should not be a surprise to learn that father to son sword making has gone on uninterupted there for generations and given the opportunity I will follow the line as far back as possible ~ People may be surprised by the outcome but I have a feeling it will shock some...after all I am about to attempt to blow the theory specifically regarding Omani Kattara European trade blades, out of the water.(Omani Kattara straight blades made in RAK not imported !)

You will see a photo run of RAK blade stamps shortly

Regards,
Ibrahiim.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

.....so what about these two? The kattara here has what you describe as a wing shaped cross section, ..............and what about the mark also on a kattara but not the one shown full length.?

Salaams,
Your point is respected in view of the cross section of the blade shown is wing shaped. For it to be Omani Kattara it needs to be tested at 90 degrees bend and released. It may be a hybrid. I have seen Saudi swords with this shaped blade. Could it be similar to the A Alnakkas blade? The second sword shown carries RAK Marks. I will continue on that sword at your next photo.

Regards Ibrahiim.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Now we are getting back to some sort of sensibility at last. Thanks Jim, TVV, and Lofty. Of course there was wide spread use of trade blades throughout the colonial territories, including Oman. I will now show the full blade with the mark, which by the way came from Ibrahiim himself, and was described by him as a curved Kattara. So that rather blows the theory that the Omanis did not use trade blades, but made their own.

Salaams,
I am referring to one specific sword style "The straight 17thC Omani Kattara" which I will attempt to show is home grown not imported though hybrids will exist; infact I have even seen Wootz bladed Omani Kattara on the forum.. There are bound to be a few one- offs but I am concerned with the Omani Kattara proper which I believe originates in RAK. RAS AL KHAIMAH.
The weapon you display is a Sayf. It appears to be a European imported trade blade. It carries the blade marks now known to be used in RAK amongst many others such as the Crown Lion Stars and God Is Great insignia. This is an Omani Sayf made or constructed in RAK.

Regards,
Ibrahiim.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by TVV

I was lucky enough to win this kattara on eBay about a month ago and it has finally arrived, which enables me to share pictures.
Scabbard and hilt are in poor shape, but at least they retain most of the original fittings and leather. As you can see the fittings are quite simple - no silver, nothing fancy.
Same can be said for the blade - it looks like a 19th century trade blade.
There are plenty of markings, identical on both sides - at the base of the blade there are gurda markings, with something in the middle - does anyone know what it is or what it attempts to represent? At the end of the fullers there is also a small cross. All the markings seem to have been added to the blade locally.
Do you think I am correct about this being a trade blade imported fro, Europe, or would you say this is a local blade?

I am very happy to have added this to my other kattara with a curved blade (most likely an imported shashka blade), and I appreciate everyone's comments.

Regards,
Teodor

Salaams, In reviewing your excellent post #1 I note that the hogs back marks as you indicate are local add ons. They appear done with a chissel and mallet rather than a stamp. Although I agree these are both Omani weapons a Kattara and a curved Sayf I only agree that perhaps the sayf is a European Blade. The straight is perhaps not. I cannot deduce if the straight is a hybrid or in line with what I am trying to prove ... an Omani (RAK) made blade.
I also recently discovered curved RAK Sayfs made for Oman !
Regards Ibrahiim.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams,
It has recently been discovered that Ras Al Khaimah(RAK) swords are a huge influence in Omani Kattara and may have been for generations. They have expertly copied several blade marks shown below and others e.g. #88. Now identified an Omani Sayf made in RAK.

As a side note other RAK industries use a Crown Mark such as the RAK Ceramics Co. There is a thought that Ras Al Khaimah which means "Head of The Tents" uses the illustration of a crown to reflect that stylised image...of tent tops.

Photos; Omani Swords. (Number 4 is a Sayf the rest Kattara) #88 is a Sayf.
1. UAE emblem with "God is Great" stamp to the right.
2. Lion + Sword, moon and star to left. Note "God is Great" scribed in the stamp under the belly of the Lion.
3. Lion... thin strike (on three Swords)
4. Crown Taj Mark on a Sayf.
5. Crown Taj Mark. Probable double strike.
6. Odd Crown reminicent of the Rolex stamp also the stamp of Berretta a European Gun Maker.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[TVV]

Ibrahim, even if we assume that unlike the rest of the area around it, from the Sudan through the rest of Arabia to India, which all imported and used European manufactured blades, Oman somehow remained an isolated oasis of local bladesmithing, I still have a major problem. We can agree that many of the markings were applied locally, but why would the RAK need to replicate European makers marks, unless those marks had become popular in Oman and perceived as a proof of quality? And how could Germand and Genoese makers marks become popular, unless such blades had been imported in huge quanitites?

That being said, I admire your quest for finding out more about the Omani kattara. If you have access to local archives from the 19th century, it would be interesting to dig for some info on what was being imported in Muscat during that time, and potentially even some info on the cost of European blank blades as opposed to what the RAK was charging for its production, as I have a strong suspicion that at one point it must have been very difficult for local smiths to compete with the European mass produced import in price (assuming similar quality of the production).

Regards,
Teodor

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by TVV

Ibrahim, even if we assume that unlike the rest of the area around it, from the Sudan through the rest of Arabia to India, which all imported and used European manufactured blades, Oman somehow remained an isolated oasis of local bladesmithing, I still have a major problem. We can agree that many of the markings were applied locally, but why would the RAK need to replicate European makers marks, unless those marks had become popular in Oman and perceived as a proof of quality? And how could Germand and Genoese makers marks become popular, unless such blades had been imported in huge quanitites?

That being said, I admire your quest for finding out more about the Omani kattara. If you have access to local archives from the 19th century, it would be interesting to dig for some info on what was being imported in Muscat during that time, and potentially even some info on the cost of European blank blades as opposed to what the RAK was charging for its production, as I have a strong suspicion that at one point it must have been very difficult for local smiths to compete with the European mass produced import in price (assuming similar quality of the production).

Regards,
Teodor

Salaams Teodor, Your questions are good and really make me think. ..First and foremost I am only considering Omani straight bladed (though I have curved Sayf blades that have clearly come through RAK workshops) Kattara from the so called new 17th C design which we are led to believe are European Trade Blades but which I suspect are home grown i.e. From Ras al Khaimah.

Blade Marks. You will see my last post with some RAK blade marks ; The Lion is Arabian and even has the arabic inscription on the underbelly. The "God is Great" stamp is clearly from here...The Taj Crown is India inspired from Queen Victoria. There is an odd Crown (Picture 6) but I believe that is simply an artist impression to illustrate the Ras al Khaimah (head of the tents idea). Moon and stars~ Arabic insignia. So, actually, so far no clear European Marks.

In addition I should point out that I have seen many Omani swords; Sayf and Kattara with no markings at all.

Perhaps somehow a shipper tied to the Nizwa inner circle fetched a shipload (Dhows in those days could handle 500 tons) of swords from somewhere and had the complete idea of blade replacement of an iconic religious sword dating to the beginning of Ibathi Islam? done overnight in one fell swoop in an atmosphere where coastal Oman was at loggerheads with the Interior ? In those days ?

I have just read a very difficult complex book "The French and The English in the Indian Ocean by Dr Sheikh Sultan Bin Qassimi from circa 16th to 19thC. It is impossible to imagine trade flowing through Muscat to Nizwa from any of these nations as neither could, until the early 20th C, persuade Oman to even accept an Envoy in Muscat.

The transition from short battle sword to long flexible dancing sword must have originated in Nizwa; The heart of Ibathi Islam. I suggest that far from accepting 500 tons of swords in one hit (or several) that swords in the new form with blade tang and pommel drifted slowly into Nizwa and became fashionable and then sought after so that over several generations it became the sword of choice superceding eventually the short weapon retaining its name Kattara and absorbing the Terrs Shield as a fighting system. The transition could have taken 100 years.

Perhaps that is why there are many different Omani Kattara swords; some with one fuller, some with three, different stamps, many with no stamps, some with a hole in the pommel some not, many differently pommeled...big and small, long handled and medium long, blades not equally measured.. all pointing to a random cottage industry drip feed system rather than a massive industrial cargo load from Europe.

This drip feed of blades, I argue, came from Ras al Khaimah. It was on the Camel trade route from Nizwa via Buraimi up the waterhole line to the Gulf and Ras al Khaimah. There, I believe, are The Swordmakers of Oman; The Shihuh originally from Persia but now straddling the Oman UAE borders who it can be argued, have made Omani Swords for generations and who still do so today.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
P.S. As yet none of my team have been able to crack any of the museum archives but we are trying. If I discover a document outlining sword deliveries into Oman I will of course post the details to forum...

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

The use of European trade blades ranged from al-Sham to Yemen. Denial of it is refuted by material evidence and "natural" evidence (lack of steel manufacturers ment expensive local swords. Buying european blades was the cheapest option)

Followers of Imam Abdulwahab for example didnt have any problem using Lion stamped blades or bu-askiri (clauberg) stamped blades. I highly doubt they had the luxury to have a problem :-)

Salaams, I agree that European trade blades are all over the peninsular..and Africa, The Red Sea etc In the form of Sayf styles..and straight swords in Africa especially Ethiopia etc etc. ~ Where I disagree is on the straight Omani Kattara, long, flexible weapons which I have recently identified as from Ras al Khaimah. The Shihuh have been in blade making for generations though I thought they were only knife makers.

Most, indeed all, of the RAK Blade marks are in fact Arabian or derived from close by(Crown from Victorian India). Stars and Moon are Arabian, Lion is Arabian and has "God is Great" on the underbelly. I would appreciate you having a look at that lion (at #98 photo 2.) as I thought I was imagining the wording in the Lions belly !
Your input is much appreciated.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by ariel

Can we simplify it?
Wouldn't it be reasonable to suggest, that the Old Kattara is just a variant of the pre-islamic straight-bladed Arab sword?

Arab invasion of Persia put them in contact with equally straight-bladed Iranian swords, so nothing changed at the beginning.

From conquered Persia they attempted to invade Europe from the East, but encountered Khazars, who were armed with true sabers. And that's when the Arabs switched to the curved blade. Persians might have taken it from them, or from the Turkic or Mongolian invaders.

The straight blade coexisted for a while, finding its way to Mamluks, Berbers and finally to Spain ( jineta). Subsequently, the most primitive tribes, Sudanese and Tuaregs, adopted it and preserved the form up to the contemporary tourist traps.
No need to invoke the imported blades for the early straight Arab blades. They had them from the beginning. The Portugese might have been surprised to find that their rapiers were identical to the Omani kattaras. Later on, everybody imported blades from everywhere, just like today upper-class americans import italian shoes, german cars and french perfume, while they import Mac Donalds and blue jeans.

Salaams Ariel, Needless to say that by typing blue jeans, french perfume or Mac Donalds into the forum search your letter will be forever more traceable !

I suppose what you are getting at is a "so what question"..? I think ours is a very viable research thread because "The Forum" is thus engaged in finding the truth about a system so long shrouded in mystery.

We may at last be able to pinpoint sword data on, an as yet, never identified manufacturing centre. It could be that the myth of European Trade Blades (concerning specifically the New Omani Kattara circa 17thC) can be identified. We may even have spotted the makers of the original Omani Battle Sword of the 8th Century which you may be getting at in your first paragraph since clearly it is influenced by the Abbassid weapon.

Of course there is always the other possibility that we are wrong but we have to give it a full airing no?

Notice that I use the term "The Forum" since it is a combined effort to discover the facts. Any positive input is gladly received since it may lead to a result. You will recall we traced the Old Omani Battle Sword to 751 AD (a date accepted in this Forum) using archive data from Traditional Omani music, poetry, and dance !

Now lets get after the proper information on the weapon(the new Omani Kattara) which superceded that sword "apparently" in about the 17th C.

Regards,
Ibrahiim.

[ariel]

No doubt I am fully supportive of your effort and applaud it.

My point was different, and likely I did not express it clearly enough:

Are we really sure that Omani and ( in general) early pre-islamic Arab swords owe their existence to Iran? Arabs had their own weapons and at that time virtually all swords everywhere ( with the exception of Asian nomads and ancient India) were straight-bladed. No need to borrow from the Sassanian/ Achemenian ( not Abbasids: those belong to 16-17 century) examples. And, of course, 7-8 century Omani swords did not use European trade blades. Later on, for sure, just like anybody else. We are in complete agreement here.
With best wishes.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by ariel

No doubt I am fully supportive of your effort and applaud it.

My point was different, and likely I did not express it clearly enough:

Are we really sure that Omani and ( in general) early pre-islamic Arab swords owe their existence to Iran? Arabs had their own weapons and at that time virtually all swords everywhere ( with the exception of Asian nomads and ancient India) were straight-bladed. No need to borrow from the Sassanian/ Achemenian ( not Abbasids: those belong to 16-17 century) examples. And, of course, 7-8 century Omani swords did not use European trade blades. Later on, for sure, just like anybody else. We are in complete agreement here.
With best wishes.

Salaams Ariel, No. Pre Islamic Blades are not involved in the discussion. There are some Arab weapons that do owe their origins to Persia for example Shamshir, Mussandam Axes, and possibly others however I dont have evidence of a link to either of the Kattara; Old or New. The old is attached in origin to the Abbassid; see my letter on this thread. ( The Abbassid 8th/9th century troops were garrissoned here in Buraimi and Omanis were at war with them and used the Short Omani Battle Sword ... The Old Kattara, against them.)
The New is under discussion now. The New flexible long dancing Kattara; a supposedly 17th C weapon and supposedly a European Trade Blade. Ibrahiim.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

.....so what about these two? The kattara here has what you describe as a wing shaped cross section, ..............and what about the mark also on a kattara but not the one shown full length.?

Salaams,
The straight Kattara style sword is possibly not Omani bladed since its blade is of a thick wing shaped cross section. Omani blades are flat in cross section thus allowing for great flexibility. The hilt, however, is in the Omani Kattara or the long Sayf style hilt style (both have the same hilt).

See other wing shaped straight blades on Michael Blalocks Arabian Swords#1. Illustrated in the Yemeni Military Museum and in the same post another thick wing blade from Riyadh souk. These could eminate from a Mamluke or a Saudia style. On the other hand it may be a one off. Bending the blade easily (whereafter the blade immediately springs back to shape) through 90 degrees would indicate an Omani Kattara. A stiff difficult to flex blade will indicate "Not Omani Kattara." However that is not to say it is not a Hybrid.

I have dealt with the marks on the other sword which is a Sayf(local terminology) that I believe is a RAK produced Omani weapon. The marks appear as star shapes or asterix and a peculiar tower shape with a moon inverted half way up the column. The Rak makers use this mark amongst many others and since it contains a moon shape is likely to be Islamic linked. (though it may even be a representation of a set of scales) At any rate both Moon and Stars are Islamic marks...

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Regards,
Ibrahiim.

[laEspadaAncha]

Salaams Ibrahiim,

For my own (and possibly others') clarity, when you discuss "wing-shaped" swords or blades, are you speaking of a blade with a lenticular cross section, i.e., a double-edged, "flattened" oval?

Also, can you please elucidate in detail the blade profile of the Omani swords you believe to be of indigenous form and which you describe as being "flat" by comparison (with regards to presence of lack of distal taper, thickness, etc.)?

As a "math guy," I guess I am surprised I don't see more quantitative analysis of measurable parameters in the study of arms & armor, such as blade length, width, profile, as well as easily measures yes/no parameters (e.g., taper, distal taper, etc.). In fact, the only time I can recall seeing tables of data was in regards to a New Zealand study of Polynesian (or maybe pan-Oceanic) war clubs (I'm guessing there are probably more out there, but just not in my nascent library). It's the least subjective of expression of form, and I would think a proper statistical analysis of the respective blade forms would be the least interpretive way to test - or support - your theory.

Cheers,

Chris

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams,
The straight Kattara style sword is possibly not Omani bladed since its blade is of a thick wing shaped cross section. Omani blades are flat in cross section thus allowing for great flexibility. The hilt, however, is in the Omani Kattara or the long Sayf style hilt style (both have the same hilt).

See other wing shaped straight blades on Michael Blalocks Arabian Swords#1. Illustrated in the Yemeni Military Museum and in the same post another thick wing blade from Riyadh souk. These could eminate from a Mamluke or a Saudia style. On the other hand it may be a one off. Bending the blade easily (whereafter the blade immediately springs back to shape) through 90 degrees would indicate an Omani Kattara. A stiff difficult to flex blade will indicate "Not Omani Kattara." However that is not to say it is not a Hybrid.

I have dealt with the marks on the other sword which is a Sayf(local terminology) that I believe is a RAK produced Omani weapon. The marks appear as star shapes or asterix and a peculiar tower shape with a moon inverted half way up the column. The Rak makers use this mark amongst many others and since it contains a moon shape is likely to be Islamic linked. (though it may even be a representation of a set of scales) At any rate both Moon and Stars are Islamic marks...

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Regards,
Ibrahiim.

OK this raises the question of the swords you advertise as Omani. Assuming your description is correct, then these ALL would have flexible blades??

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha

Salaams Ibrahiim,

For my own (and possibly others') clarity, when you discuss "wing-shaped" swords or blades, are you speaking of a blade with a lenticular cross section, i.e., a double-edged, "flattened" oval?

Also, can you please elucidate in detail the blade profile of the Omani swords you believe to be of indigenous form and which you describe as being "flat" by comparison (with regards to presence of lack of distal taper, thickness, etc.)?

As a "math guy," I guess I am surprised I don't see more quantitative analysis of measurable parameters in the study of arms & armor, such as blade length, width, profile, as well as easily measures yes/no parameters (e.g., taper, distal taper, etc.). In fact, the only time I can recall seeing tables of data was in regards to a New Zealand study of Polynesian (or maybe pan-Oceanic) war clubs (I'm guessing there are probably more out there, but just not in my nascent library). It's the least subjective of expression of form, and I would think a proper statistical analysis of the respective blade forms would be the least interpretive way to test - or support - your theory.

Cheers,

Chris

Salaams Chris,

Wrapped inside your well placed call for mathematical analysis is an assumption that we are able to pinpoint origin of species ...however we cannot. I would dearly love to stick the calipers on an original new so called 17th C (New Omani Kattara). In itself this is also not going to help if there is no standard length or weight because of the cottage industry style of production I think we are looking at. Every Omani Kattara I see and there are hundreds already viewed are all different in some small way. What is the same, or similar, is the flexibility. Stiff blades do not qualify. How do I put that into mathematical terms ? The bend is through about 90 degrees and the blade when subjected to this test springs immediately back to shape. Any blade that does not bend and return to shape after this simple test is not an Oman (New) Kattara.

The peculiar point being that its predecessor, with the same name, was a short weapon capable of slash cut and stab is a stiff unflexible blade originating in the 8th C. and is superceded by the new blade form in the 17th C (Supposedly)

What is under examination is ~ Is this new sword a European Trade Blade? If not what are its origins ?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[laEspadaAncha]

Salaams Ibrahiim,

The measurements themselves, e.g., length, width, cross section, et al, would serve as the mathematical terms for such a study. A proper statistical analysis of the distribution of these measurements might allow for someone to cross-correlate the measurements with a likely place of origin/production, and in turn, evaluate the probable origin of a specific example by comparing it to this distribution. While you may not be able to pinpoint the origin of an entire type or form, theoretically you might be able to formulate a theory of origin of a respective type by comparing the measurements of individual examples with a known provenance/origin to the (statistical) distribution of the group...

Cheers,

Chris

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

OK this raises the question of the swords you advertise as Omani. Assuming your description is correct, then these ALL would have flexible blades??

Salaams,
Your question is possibly badly placed. With respect it is a commercial question and I cannot address it on the forum. However, I would have thought that information being freshly researched would be gratefully received so that we are not in the dark regarding a swords provenance.

In trying to assess a blade as Omani to date there have been no mistakes in the final analysis. I will agree that getting there is a bumpy ride but well worth the effort. So far this thread has cracked the origin of the Old Omani Kattara with a forum accepted date of 751 AD. I believe we have a duty to examine thoroughly the new version, no?

Geographical influence ~(The UAE, RAK and the entire region up almost as far as Bahrain and including Gwadur in Baluchistan and Zanzibar were Omani for many centuries..The Shihuh tribe today, in fact, straddle Oman and the UAE. A Kattara made in a Shehe workshop is therefor Omani 100% by tradition . I think you misunderstand the origin of species not only of the swords but of the tribes also... They all dance the Funun whether in the UAE or Oman because not so long ago this was all one region.

~ Granted it was a series of splintered Fiefdoms but socially it was very much one entity. Having said that there is a rich diversity. Religiously take for example RAK.. Ibathi , Hamaffi, Shaffaii, Maliki, Hamberli; all with their own style and history all different interpretations but all the same...Islamic. They all do the Funoon sword dance and fighting mimicry with the (New) Kattara and Terrs ~

Omans History. What many may not understand is what swords were used in Oman after they ousted the Abbassids 1200 years ago? Essentially after the Abbasids left, Oman was peaceful and prosperous and sea trade flourished exponentially. This period of peace lasted nearly 400 years during which time the Old Omani Battle Sword spread all over Oman ~ Coast, Mountains and Interior.

What is important to realise is that in the 16th to 18th Centuries Oman did not have a warring Interior versus Coastal Belt using different swords e.g. . Coastal Oman Sayf curved weapons versus Interior straight Kattara.. when in fact they used the same swords; mainly Old Kattara though doubtless there were others ..Sayfs Shamshir etc. So the advent of a new blade would change the entire country sword stock though I argue not instantly but over time and perhaps 100 years or more. Change through fashionable choice via a cottage industry output and then acceptance into the Funoon; rather than huge industrial production and direct influx of Trade Blades out of Europe. I chose the word "direct" carefully since no evidence is available showing the blade moving gradually through Africa. Equally no evidence exists of a sudden influx of Trade Blades from Europe... not a shread..Its all here say!

This weapon was an Icon of Heraldic proportions.

Consider the socio-religio- political implications of a so called new sword from Europe ??

We are being fed (by association) without proof that somehow a European Trade Blade superceded this Iconic weapon, taking not only its name but the Terrrs Shield into the bargain..and with a woft of the hand "in the 17th C." ? We have seen this quality of guesswork before with spurious wild assessments of the Old Kattara some said was 16th C and some said was 10th. I know a museum that have one dated 19thC!

It seems linked, by association, to the flood of European Trade Blades into Africa. The instantaneous arrival and sudden acceptance of a European sword into Oman being apparently automatic, absolute and unquestioned ... until now.

Without proof, no research, heresay and with mere association I find that difficult to believe thus I have earmarked a closer to home explanation illustrating known blade stamps from the Ras al Khaimah where Omani (new) Kattara are produced there to this day. They already have a reputation of knife/blade making/ leather scabbard and hilt making and my investigations may lead to more discoveries and perhaps the origin of the old Kattara manufacture. I do not however rule out other manufacturing centres and it would not surprise me to find New Kattara from Muscat, Sohar, Zanzibar, Madagascar or Nizwa. (There is a new factory in Salalah making tourist new kattara by Pakistani craftsmen but that is recent and unrelated to this research.)

I believe that all Omani (New) Kattara must have flexible blades. You cannot dance or perform the (new) Funun with a sword which doesn't flex. Fight training with a non flexible heavier blade and using the Terrs is lop sided and awkward. Should we discover, however, that there is a branch of Omani New Kattara that occur with stiff blades that do/do not use the Terrs Shield I would be the first to report on it.

The straight Kattara in your photo has a Saudia or Yemeni blade and could be a one off, or a hybrid.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Photos attached show;
Long Flexible Spatulate Tipped (New) Kattara. and stamps identified as Ras Al Khaimah workshops stamps... stars (Nijimaat) and a new style of "God is Great" insignia. The (New) Kattara was made with pommel, tang and blade as an "all in one" product.

The long flexible "style" Omani (New) Kattara Circa 17th Century and Claimed to be a European Trade Blade alongside the shorter Old Omani Kattara with distinctive turned down quillons and Islamic hilt..The Old Omani Kattara. Circa 751 A.D.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha

Salaams Ibrahiim,

The measurements themselves, e.g., length, width, cross section, et al, would serve as the mathematical terms for such a study. A proper statistical analysis of the distribution of these measurements might allow for someone to cross-correlate the measurements with a likely place of origin/production, and in turn, evaluate the probable origin of a specific example by comparing it to this distribution. While you may not be able to pinpoint the origin of an entire type or form, theoretically you might be able to formulate a theory of origin of a respective type by comparing the measurements of individual examples with a known provenance/origin to the (statistical) distribution of the group...

Cheers,

Chris

Salaams Chris, That all sounds great in theory, however, in practise all but impossible. To date I have not seen two blades that are the same except for 3 brand new items from a workshop I now know well. Whilst that statement goes someway to disproving the European (industrial) Trade Blade connection because Industrial Trade Blades of one type are all the same technically and identical. I have no idea how to apply it. As you may appreciate Im working in a vacuum largely in the dark and without a safety net !

Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[kahnjar1]

[QUOTE=Ibrahiim al Balooshi]Salaams,
Your question is possibly badly placed. With respect it is a commercial question and I cannot address it on the forum.

OK I see your point, so I will rephrase. Of the many "new" Omani swords you see, what % of these are true Omani, with flexible blade?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

[QUOTE=kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams,
Your question is possibly badly placed. With respect it is a commercial question and I cannot address it on the forum.

OK I see your point, so I will rephrase. Of the many "new" Omani swords you see, what % of these are true Omani, with flexible blade?

Salaams,
Not counting the tourist items I would say all Omani new style (that is of the "supposed" European Trade Blade 17th C design) straight Kattara are fully flexible and true Omani by definition.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[ariel]

Hi Ibrahim,
What do you think of this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400240311416#ht_1488wt_1348

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by ariel

Hi Ibrahim,
What do you think of this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400240311416#ht_1488wt_1348

Salaams~ I see that the auction is finished ~ So I will tell you exactly what that is.

Omani 751 AD Short Kattara Battlesword. Needless to say it is not Moorish.. but Omani. It is not 17th C design but 8thC. This thread deals with exactly this weapon. It is the early Omani Kattara. Someone has won a nice early Omani Kattara. The Hilt looks original. The blade may need a second look as some of the later blades were flatter and not as stiff... I would be looking for dot or dots and the famous wing shaped blade cross section(though dots are not vital). One of the quillons has the end missing... not a problem..Battle Damage ?..On these swords the hilt may be tubular or more originally eight sided. There ought to be three holes in the hilt The bottom two for holding the hilt together and the top one, just below the pommel, for a wrist strap.

The Omani Short Battle Sword (Kattara) 8thC. Pre-cursor to the long flexible (dancing) Omani Kattara of 17thC? which is supposedly said to be a European Trade Blade? but argued by me as a Local Omani Production
[ NOW UNDER THE SPOTLIGHT]
Nice Sword !!!

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Here is some shock and awe !!!

Salaams,

The Debate on dating The (New) (FLEXIBLE) Omani Kattara and its origins. Some important dates etc ;

1. The Portuguese did not leave Muscat until they were forced out in 1650. It is impossible, therefor, for bladed weapons to have entered Muscat in the first half i.e. 1600 to 1650.

2. In Europe iron was extremely expensive until a method of smelting was discovered using coke viz;

The iron industry benefited also from other early inventions of the 18th century. Iron was scarce and costly, and production was falling off because England's forests could not supply enough charcoal for smelting the ore. Ironmasters had long been experimenting with coal as a fuel for smelting. Finally the Darby family, after three generations of effort, succeeded with coal that had been transformed into coke. This created a new demand for coal and laid the foundation for the British coal industry.

3. It is unlikely that mass produced blades could have been attempted before 1780 because viz Following the development above ~ The next great steps were taken in the 1780s, when Henry Cort developed the processes of puddling and rolling. Puddling produced nearly pure malleable iron. Hand in hand with the adoption of the new inventions went the rapid development of the factory system of manufacture.

Therefor if the arguement for European Industrial Trade Blades 17th C collapses.

This is on going "hot" research... I also have to report that sword production in Ras Al Khaimah is only recent having interviewed the elders... Perhaps 40 or 50 years only. They are develish clever.. copiers.. though they do make good swords! and they are Omani. They copy all sorts of stamps... but are now written off as "original" manufacturers ~

The new source of original (New) Omani Kattara is Salalah ! and that brings with it the likely involvement of The Yemen and is well placed on the Camel Train framework for supply and distribution.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Michael Blalock]

Thats a good deal you got there Ariel.

[Jim McDougall]

I wanted to just comment on the overall status thus far as I understand, and by my perceptions of the development of these notably different kattara forms.

It does seem possible that the 'old' form with downturned quillons etc. established now as indiginous to the interior Oman, is evolved from early Abbasid swords of c.8th c. however without extant and provenanced examples we cannot be certain of the exact form chronologically. We can presume the form in accord with contemporary types however and estimate the approximate style and its traditional form being maintained.

The more familiar form of Omani kattara with cylindrical hilt and straight, double edged blade is it seems the focus of the discussion and whether it evolved around the arrival of European trade blades in the 17th century.

Elgood ("Arms and Armour of Arabia", p.18) states that the early form of Omani sword is frequently found with German blades of the 17th century suggesting that as a terminus a quo, however clearly that assumption seems in question at this point. It does show that German blades were present in this time apparantly in Oman. On p.16 referring to James Fraser at Ormuz in 1821 it is noted that the Omani garrison, resembling 'Arabs of Muscat' had broadswords and target, with many made at Yemen while greater part were from ports in the Meditteranean, many with Solingen and Andrea Ferara blades.
p.20, he notes that in Hormuz, the Arabs of Muscat shared with them very considerable trade with India where many Arabs had settled.
There were trade connections between Mysore and Tipu Sultan to Muscat from 1786 to his death in 1799 and it is noted that "...since its emergence from 16th century onwards Muscat had established commercial contacts indirectly with Western Europe via India". ("Trade and Empire in Muscat and Zanzibar: Roots of British Domination", Mohammed Reda Bhader, 1992, p.35).

It does seem that most emphasis on the presence of European blades recorded is from mid to latter 18th century into the early 19th in Arabia by Europeans, so it would be difficult to presume that the familiar guardless kattara had appeared in the 17th century. It does seem that the early form did exist with the German trade blades of the 17th century, however whether simply old blades, mounted later or Omani copies is unclear.

While there seems to be sufficient evidence for the import of European blades through India, Egypt and other ports on Muscat maritime trade routes, as well as via caravans in the interior through Jidda and other routes....it seems unlikely that the 'new' kattara evolved 'around' these blades. It does seem clear as noted in various reading in Elgood that there were indeed skilled and numerous sword makers in Arabia, certainly including regions being discussed. It seems that unfortunate observations by Richard Burton in the 19th c. may be the source for the impression that few or no swords were produced in Arabia.

I believe that much as in North Africa, more volume in imported material including blades resulted in the perception that most blades were imported, while of course a good number may have been produced locally. What I do find puzzling is why these well established makers in Oman or Muscat would imitate the European markings if notably proud of thier own wares. Much of the increase in volume of German blades to these colonial regions at the end of the 18th century was due to the upset of local makers for example in England of the German imports. In many cases the Solingen makers began to produce more for other markets to offset this deterence in their markets.
It is believed they did produce various blade types for varied clientele and markets, many of broadsword type to the Sahara and Sudan.

It seems that the 'old' or battle sword is a form which may exist 'in form' in degree traditionally from early types atavistically related to the Abbasid swords, and which may have used Persian and European blades in addition to Omani produced examples. These have remained in use primarily in the Nizwa regions and Omans interior and concurrent with the Muscat type guardless swords. I also wonder how much contact with the Ibadis in North Africa might have contributed to arrival of German blades in Oman.

The highly flexible blades of the Muscat or 'new' kattara, while exact period of development of the hilt style is unclear, are notably important in the Funun, or sword dance. This dynamic is noted by Fraser in 1821 (Elgood, p.16) where he notes the blades are made to 'sing' by jerk of the wrist while being held upright...apparantly before battle. This characteristic of blades is well known into medieval times and in India and other instances, but the details of ceremony related in other places is not clear here. It does seem that the dancing and ceremonial event is much related to martial skill and the use of the weapon in combat.

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Here is some shock and awe !!!

Salaams,

The Debate on dating The (New) (FLEXIBLE) Omani Kattara and its origins. Some important dates etc ;

1. The Portuguese did not leave Muscat until they were forced out in 1850. It is impossible, therefor, for bladed weapons to have entered Muscat in the first half i.e. 1600 to 1650.

2. In Europe iron was extremely expensive until a method of smelting was discovered using coke viz;

The iron industry benefited also from other early inventions of the 18th century. Iron was scarce and costly, and production was falling off because England's forests could not supply enough charcoal for smelting the ore. Ironmasters had long been experimenting with coal as a fuel for smelting. Finally the Darby family, after three generations of effort, succeeded with coal that had been transformed into coke. This created a new demand for coal and laid the foundation for the British coal industry.

3. It is unlikely that mass produced blades could have been attempted before 1780 because viz Following the development above ~ The next great steps were taken in the 1780s, when Henry Cort developed the processes of puddling and rolling. Puddling produced nearly pure malleable iron. Hand in hand with the adoption of the new inventions went the rapid development of the factory system of manufacture.

Therefor if the arguement for European Industrial Trade Blades 17th C collapses.

This is on going "hot" research... I also have to report that sword production in Ras Al Khaimah is only recent having interviewed the elders... Perhaps 40 or 50 years only. They are develish clever.. copiers.. though they do make good swords! and they are Omani. They copy all sorts of stamps... but are now written off as "original" manufacturers ~

The new source of original (New) Omani Kattara is Salalah ! and that brings with it the likely involvement of The Yemen and is well placed on the Camel Train framework for supply and distribution.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Salam Alaikum,

First, I do not think that the european industrial blade argument is dismantled in your answer. Your answer does not really answers the question actually.

It must be noted that the majority of european trade blades do not come from england, rather they come from Almajar (Hungary) or Germany. As far as I know, Germany imported steel from Sweden and there wasnt really any issue there. Your answer however, focuses on England which blade's are rare here (wilkinson blades being mostly sold to ethiopia but those are easy to tell apart from other blades)

What I find interesting in the Kattara is that it stayed landlocked in Oman and what is now the UAE... why was this form not adopted by other arabs? even though they were connected tribally (Bani Kaab tribe being the most obvious, as it exist in alBasra, Kuwait, AlAhwaz, Qatar and Oman/UAE) Why was the Badawi/syrian hilt style become dominant? keep in mind that there are straight blades with badawi hilt, they are called Garda.

Now to my opinion regarding your quest, I think its very good and respect worthy, but as an advice, when it comes to weapons and other important goods, forget about what might seem as religious barriers :-)

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Salam Alaikum,

First, I do not think that the european industrial blade argument is dismantled in your answer. Your answer does not really answers the question actually.

It must be noted that the majority of european trade blades do not come from england, rather they come from Almajar (Hungary) or Germany. As far as I know, Germany imported steel from Sweden and there wasnt really any issue there. Your answer however, focuses on England which blade's are rare here (wilkinson blades being mostly sold to ethiopia but those are easy to tell apart from other blades)

What I find interesting in the Kattara is that it stayed landlocked in Oman and what is now the UAE... why was this form not adopted by other arabs? even though they were connected tribally (Bani Kaab tribe being the most obvious, as it exist in alBasra, Kuwait, AlAhwaz, Qatar and Oman/UAE) Why was the Badawi/syrian hilt style become dominant? keep in mind that there are straight blades with badawi hilt, they are called Garda.

Now to my opinion regarding your quest, I think its very good and respect worthy, but as an advice, when it comes to weapons and other important goods, forget about what might seem as religious barriers :-)

Actually we do need to focus on Germany which is where most of the trade blades were from. England has never really done much in exporting blades except for later in the 19th century to colonial regions. Solingen, on the Wupper River is strategically located for its ore. Sweden was noted for cheaper iron exported much later in the 19th century and unsure of why Germany would have brought that in.
It has never been entirely clear about Hungarian blades, and actually it seems many of these were actually from Solingen or Styria, though there were a few makers, certainly insufficient for export. It does seem that in Arabia the 'Magyar' blades were much favored, but via Syria . These were sabre blades, not broadswords as in most Omani kattara. The larger part of the curved sabre blades came in the 19th century with Caucasian and other European imports.

I think the kattara was far from landlocked as far as the new form. These are well known in Zanzibar as well as well into Africa;s trade networks. It is tempting to associate the cylindrical guard Manding sabres of Mali as well as thed Maasai seme' of Kenya, which may have some degree of influence via Muscat merchants. The 'old' form seems to have remained in place in Omans interior regions contemporary with the new forms on the coast.

The markings phenomenon to me seems very much in line with the blade makers in Sudan where 'Kasallawi' makers produced kaskaras from the 1960s to present. The copied markings are similar but usually distinguishable from old ones by the blade context.

The Wilkinson blades were indeed produced for Abyssinia in the latter 19th century and most notably 1930s. Germany also produced blades for this market. Many of these blades ended up in Yemen where they were remounted in San'a.

We are focused on commercial and trade aspects, nothing to do with religion, so lets keep it that way OK .