F. de Luzon's Moro Kris Collection

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by F. de Luzon

I re-etched #5 (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22242) and a pattern emerged on the core. Did I over etch? It looks almost like glitter. I wonder if this was intended by its maker.

What you can see there is as Detlef said the so called grain boundary: "A grain boundary is the interface between two grains, or crystallites, in a polycrystalline material. Grain boundaries are 2D defects in the crystal structure, and tend to decrease the electrical and thermal conductivity of the material."

The bigger the grains are, the lower the quality is. Every iron has this grain pattern but the graining of modern steel ist too small for human eyes.

Such big crystals as in the middle of your sword are simply a sign of low quality steel.

You should try another etchant to avoid this crystals.


Roland

[F. de Luzon]

Originally Posted by Roland_M

What you can see there is as Detlef said the so called grain boundary: "A grain boundary is the interface between two grains, or crystallites, in a polycrystalline material. Grain boundaries are 2D defects in the crystal structure, and tend to decrease the electrical and thermal conductivity of the material."

The bigger the grains are, the lower the quality is. Every iron has this grain pattern but the graining of modern steel ist too small for human eyes.

Such big crystals as in the middle of your sword are simply a sign of low quality steel.

You should try another etchant to avoid this crystals.


Roland

Thanks for the info Roland_M!

[F. de Luzon]

Originally Posted by Ian

F. de Luzon:

Another nice kris. Not all small kris are necessarily children's kris. We should not forgot that some Moro women fought beside their husbands, brothers and fathers. I'm inclined to think some of these slightly shorter and slimmer versions may have been meant for women. Also, many of the older kris (pre-1800) were shorter and slimmer than those of 19th C Mindanao. I'm not suggesting that your smaller example is earlier than the 19th C, but we should not think that all short, slim kris were designed for children--they were definitely weapons and could be used as such by adults.

Attached below is an example of an 18th C. kris that is similar in length to your shorter example.

Ian.

----------------Attachment--18th C Moro kris------------------

.

Thanks Ian! I agree. Despite its size, this blade is equally deadly. Aside from being for women or children, another probability is that it was designed to be concealed. Moros are known to have made blades for such purpose.

Thanks also for the reference photo!

Regards,

F. de Luzon

[F. de Luzon]

With a blade length of 17.5 inches (44.5 cm) and the proportionate width, this kris is smaller than the others in my collection. The laminated blade has a separate gangya and is much older than the hilt. The pommel is some kind of hardened resin with a coin (American Era Philippines) dated 1944. It comes with a Maguindanao style scabbard.

Because the hilt is of low quality workmanship, I am contemplating on having it replaced. I also want a nice pommel to go with it. However, a part of me is saying to leave it as it is.

[Aslan Paladin]

IMHO it looks fine the way it is. Changing the hilt is not needed as this would tamper with the sword's history and could even probably negatively affect the sword's balance if not done properly. Besides it looks like a kris meant for battle, with a hilt exactly meant for business so there is no need to dress it up with a different hilt.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Aslan Paladin

IMHO it looks fine the way it is. Changing the hilt is not needed as this would tamper with the sword's history and could even probably negatively affect the sword's balance if not done properly. Besides it looks like a kris meant for battle, with a hilt exactly meant for business so there is no need to dress it up with a different hilt.

Exactly my thoughts!

[Battara]

I have to agree - leaving it alone might be best.

[Rick]

I agree with the above sentiments.
That sword is a splendid example just as it is!

[Ian]

Agree with all opinions so far. This is a fine old warrior with an authentic hilt.

[Robert]

Please leave the hilt on this piece as is. If it were extremely damaged or was something non traditional put on it by a U.S. serviceman or tourist after bringing it home I would agree that changing it to a more traditional hilt would be something to consider, but that is not the case with this. I totally agree that by replacing the hilt you would be taking away an important part of this swords history.

Best,
Robert

[F. de Luzon]

Thank you all for your advice. I will leave the hilt as it is. I agree that this would be the wiser decision.

Kind regards to you all,

F. de Luzon

[David]

Well, i guess you don't need one more fellow collector to say please don't change anything on this kris. I frankly don't understand collecting these items from history if the end goal it not to preserve that history, but to create some idealized alternative version of what the original piece we collected actually is. I am glad you have decide to listen to the part of you that just says "No".

[Battara]

I agree David. If it were missing pieces, that would be a different story.......

[F. de Luzon]

Number 7 in the collection is this twist core "18th Century" Moro kalis/kris with a 5 luk, 47.5 cm (18.75 inches) long blade. The total length of the blade and hilt is 59 cm (23.25 inches) and the wooden pommel is of the horse hoof motif. For more pictures and discussion please click on the link- http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22716

[kai]

Hello Fernando,

I already commented on your newest acquisition in the dedicated thread.

Here a late comment on the earlier small one:

With a blade length of 17.5 inches (44.5 cm) and the proportionate width, this kris is smaller than the others in my collection. The laminated blade has a separate gangya and is much older than the hilt. The pommel is some kind of hardened resin with a coin (American Era Philippines) dated 1944. It comes with a Maguindanao style scabbard.

I believe the blade dates from the first quarter of the 20th century (give or take a few years); craftsmanship of the panday is not really great and makes it difficult to place. The clamp attachment seems typical for the upper Cota Bato region and I guess the whole hilt got replaced during WW2 or, probably, sometime later; the braiding is done correctly and the piece seems to have been in continued use. I agree with the others to keep it as is.

Regards,
Kai

[F. de Luzon]

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Fernando,

I already commented on your newest acquisition in the dedicated thread.

Here a late comment on the earlier small one:

I believe the blade dates from the first quarter of the 20th century (give or take a few years); craftsmanship of the panday is not really great and makes it difficult to place. The clamp attachment seems typical for the upper Cota Bato region and I guess the whole hilt got replaced during WW2 or, probably, sometime later; the braiding is done correctly and the piece seems to have been in continued use. I agree with the others to keep it as is.

Regards,
Kai

Thanks for your insights Kai! Much appreciated. I have decided to keep it as is.

[Pinoy Blade Hunter]

great collection you have there. i am curious on how you go about ethcing the whole length of the kris blade? i am planning on etching mine as well.

thank you.

[F. de Luzon]

Originally Posted by Pinoy Blade Hunter

great collection you have there. i am curious on how you go about ethcing the whole length of the kris blade? i am planning on etching mine as well.

thank you.

Thanks Pinoy Blade Hunter!

I have a plastic drafting/drawing tube that I fill with sukang puti. It is long enough to immerse the blade up to the area near the gangya. I then brush vinegar on the exposed gangya from time to time. After a few minutes or hours (depending on the condition of the blade) I remove the blade from the tube and even out the etch by brushing more vinegar on the etch line and gangya. I then immerse it again if necessary, until I get the desired effect.

It's important that you neutralize the blade by washing it with a baking soda slurry after etching. After washing off the slurry, I use WD 40 to protect the blade. Btw, I cover the hilt with cling wrap for protection.

Kind regards,

Fernando/ F. de Luzon

[Pinoy Blade Hunter]

Originally Posted by F. de Luzon

Thanks Pinoy Blade Hunter!

I have a plastic drafting/drawing tube that I fill with sukang puti. It is long enough to immerse the blade up to the area near the gangya. I then brush vinegar on the exposed gangya from time to time. After a few minutes or hours (depending on the condition of the blade) I remove the blade from the tube and even out the etch by brushing more vinegar on the etch line and gangya. I then immerse it again if necessary, until I get the desired effect.

It's important that you neutralize the blade by washing it with a baking soda slurry after etching. After washing off the slurry, I use WD 40 to protect the blade. Btw, I cover the hilt with cling wrap for protection.

Kind regards,

Fernando/ F. de Luzon

Thank you very much! Just the information i need. I was wondering about the tube if i will have to make a PVC tube thing, but the tracing paper tube is much more practical and easy.

Do you have a place where you display your sword for public viewing? I would love to gaze upon that twist core piece up close. From malate manila here and i have been frequenting the antique shops in ermita lately. Drooling. Hahaha

Thanks again.
PBH

[Victrix]

This book may be of interest to the historically inclined amongst you.

[F. de Luzon]

Do you have a place where you display your sword for public viewing?

Hi PBH,

I'll get in touch with you soon. A bit busy now. Thanks!

Fernando

[F. de Luzon]

Originally Posted by Victrix

This book may be of interest to the historically inclined amongst you.

Thanks Vitrix! Antonio de Morga's "Sucesos..." is one of the popular primary sources on the early Spanish era here in the Philippines. The annotated version by the Philippine national hero, Jose Rizal is even a school reading for some students. Is that your personal copy?

Kind regards,

Fernando

[Victrix]

Originally Posted by F. de Luzon

Thanks Vitrix! Antonio de Morga's "Sucesos..." is one of the popular primary sources on the early Spanish era here in the Philippines. The annotated version by the Philippine national hero, Jose Rizal is even a school reading for some students. Is that your personal copy?

Kind regards,

Fernando

Si Senjor!

I found a copy in a bookstore by chance and selected it for my early summer reading, which I'm looking forward to. It's translated into English and edited by a J. S. Cummins and was published for the Hakluyt Society (1971). I'm glad to hear it's included as a school reading for students in Philippines.

All the best.