Help with yatagans' inscriptions

[TVV]

I received pistures of the whole items and it turns out only one of them is a yataghan, the others are small knives, which I believe are modern replicas from India. Still, I would appreciate a translation just to know if these knives actually copy old inscriptions, or if their creators simply apply some jibberish.

I do not believe the Sumatran pedang has an inscription, but I am including it just in case, since it came with the rest of the pictures.

Thank you,
Teodor

[Zifir]

Teodor, it seems I missed many posts in this thread. I will try to make it up.
The inscriptions in post # 60 seemed problematic at the first sight, the first one and the maker's seal in the last picture make some sense and are somehow readable, but the second one is jibberish. I think the longer it gets, the more difficult to imitate.




Post # 55)

Amel-i Osman Sahib ü Malik İbrahim Ağa
Ya Hafiyyü'l-eltaf neccina mimma nehaf Sene 1271

Work of Osman, Owner İbrahim Agha
O God, whose bounties are hidden, deliver us from the ones we fear Year 1854/55

Bu bıçağı kıl mübarek ey Kerim la-yezal
Sahibine verme ya Rab ömrü oldukça zeval

O God, the most generous and everlasting, make this knife blessed
Don't let any harm come to the owner of this knife in his life

Post # 56)

Ey gönül bir can içün her cana minnet eyleme
İşret-i dünya içün sultana minnet eyleme

Oh heart do not abase yourself to everyone just for a life
Do not abase yourself to the sultan for the pleasures of mundane life

Amel Elhac Ahmed Sahib Osman Sene 1275
Ya Muhammed kıl şefaat ümmetindir Ahmed

Work of Elhac Ahmed, Owner Osman, Year 1858/59
O Muhammed! Intercede on the day of Judgement on the behalf of Ahmed who is one of your followers


Post # 57)

Ya Muhammed kıl şefaat ümmetindir
Amel-i Şerif Sahib Eyyüb? sene 1241

O Muhammed! Intercede on the day of Judgement on the behalf of...
Work of Şerif, Owner Eyyüb, Year 1825/26


Post # 60

1) Amel-i Yunus 1209 (Work of Yunus, Year 1794/95)


3) Amel-i Muhammed (Work of Muhammed)

[ariel]

The one with the T-handle is a Zeibek one, IMHO.
http://www.timsah.com/Zeybek-Dance-COKERTME/nTVV0PBAXku

[TVV]

Zifir,

Thank you very much for the translations. The yataghans in posts 55 & 56 were similar in terms of their decoration, and were made in a span of 4 years, but as we now know thanks to your translation, by different smiths. Also, thank you for cinfirming my suspicions about the inscripions on the modern Indian daggers: it must indeed be difficult for contemporary kotgari artists to copy old inscriptions.

Ariel, good observation on the T-shaped hilt. I have always assumed that it is an Anatolian feature, but now you have linked it more specifically to the southern parts of Asia Minor, facing the Aegean. I am sure that period photos, if any come up, will further confirm this. I am assuming you were referring to the yataghan in post 17, since it is the only one in this thread with this type of hilt.

Many thanks to everyone again,
Teodor

[TVV]

Here is another one for translation, many thanks in advance to Ziir or anyone else who attempt to unlock the meaning of the inscriptions.

Teodor

[TVV]

Better pictures uploaded.

[Zifir]

Teodor,
Translation as promised and sorry for the delay.

Best,

[TVV]

Zifir, thank you very much! Interesting inscription. On the second picture, which word means sword, as I do not see kilic anywhere?

Teodor

[Zifir]

The Ottoman word is "tiğ-ı teber" which I translated as sword. "Tiğ" or "tegh" is a Persian word for sword, much used by the Ottomans especially in poems. "Teber" or "tabar" is also a Persian word meaning "axe" or "axe shaped". The combination of these two is a curious one, probably an Ottoman literary invention, I translate it literally as "naked sword" but in the text I used sword instead. If there is anyone whose native language is Persian in the forum, I would also like to hear their opinion.

Best,

[TVV]

Zifir,

Thank you very much for the explanation.

Teodor

[TVV]

I have received pictures of one more yataghan. Can you please help translate the inscriptions?

Thank you,
Teodor

[drac2k]

After viewing all of the beautiful yataghans, I apologize in advance for hitching a ride on this thread ;I know that this is a site for ethnographic weapons, but after all this is a yataghan (kinda of).
I was wondering if the gold inscription on the blade has any meaning or is merely put there for the consumption of the Nato troops, making an Enfield bayonet fetch more money.

[TVV]

Zifir,

When you read this thread, can you also translate these Ottoman seals?

Thank you,
Teodor

[Zifir]

Hi Teodor,
You can find translations in the attachments.
Regards,

[TVV]

Thank you very much Zifir, you are a priceless asset to this forum.

Teodor

[TVV]

More yataghans and many thanks in advance to anyone, who can help with translating their inscriptions.

Teodor

[AhmedH]

Originally Posted by TVV

More yataghans and many thanks in advance to anyone, who can help with translating their inscriptions.

Teodor

Salaams Teodor,

In the second photo, the writing is in Turkish, but I could understand from the second line the following inscription:

عمل عثمان صاحب علي

Translation: Made by Othman, the owner is Ali.

Also, the date is 1231 AH...which corresponds to 1815 C.E.

Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Ahmed Helal Hussein

[AhmedH]

Originally Posted by TVV

More yataghans and many thanks in advance to anyone, who can help with translating their inscriptions.

Teodor

As for the third photo:

The inscription reads:

عمل محمود صاحب حسن أغا سنة 1280

Translation: "Made by Mahmoud [for the] owner [who] is Hassan Agha in the year 1280 AH [which corresponds to 1862 or 1863 CE]".

Note: All other inscriptions are not in Arabic, and therefore are NOT Qur'anic.

Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Ahmed Helal Hussein

[TVV]

Ahmed,

Thank you very much!

Teodor

[Zifir]

Turkish part of the inscription - though I am not sure about the last word. And my translation to English is as close as possible to Turkish meaning.
Best,

Originally Posted by AhmedH

Salaams Teodor,

In the second photo, the writing is in Turkish, but I could understand from the second line the following inscription:

عمل عثمان صاحب علي

Translation: Made by Othman, the owner is Ali.

Also, the date is 1231 AH...which corresponds to 1815 C.E.

Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Ahmed Helal Hussein

[TVV]

Thank you very much Zifir, much appreciated.

Teodor

[Zifir]

Again the Turkish parts. By the way Teodor, these inscriptions are very interesting, I have not seen similar ones until now. The second one is little bit heavy metallish though

Originally Posted by AhmedH

As for the third photo:

The inscription reads:

عمل محمود صاحب حسن أغا سنة 1280

Translation: "Made by Mahmoud [for the] owner [who] is Hassan Agha in the year 1280 AH [which corresponds to 1862 or 1863 CE]".

Note: All other inscriptions are not in Arabic, and therefore are NOT Qur'anic.

Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Ahmed Helal Hussein

[TVV]

Thank you Zifir, glad to have finally posted an unusual inscription. Very threatening and bloodthirsty indeed.

Teodor

[TVV]

I just acquired this yataghan. Not much in the way of inscriptions, but would still really appreciate a translation, if possible.

Thank you in advance,
Teodor

[Zifir]

Hi,

Amel-i Abdi, Sahib Memiş Ağa / Work of Abdi, Owner Memiş Agha

[TVV]

Thank you very much Zifir, we are so lucky to have your help with these inscriptions. To the left of the maker's name, there is something that looks like a date, but I cannot make it out - does it make any sense to you? Reading the date may be important, because there was a Memis Agha who rose to prominence in the Trabzon and Surmene area in the end of the 18th century, early 19th century (when most of the yataghans with similar Foca silver hilts are usually dated based on similar examples).

Teodor

[Zifir]

Hi Teodor,
I could not see any date there. Are you by any chance referring to the letter "Y/İ" ى at the top of the maker's name? If so, that's just a stylistic writing of the name ABDİ with (Y/İ) at the top.

Best,

[TVV]

Originally Posted by Zifir

Hi Teodor,
I could not see any date there. Are you by any chance referring to the letter "Y/İ" ى at the top of the maker's name? If so, that's just a stylistic writing of the name ABDİ with (Y/İ) at the top.

Best,

Thank you Zifir, yes, this is exactly what I was confusing with a date. Still, Memish Agha is at least in my experience an uncommon name and there is a good chance that this yataghan may have indeed been made for Memish Agha from Rize, who appears to have led a small unsuccessful uprising around Trabzon in 1814-1817.

Regards,
Teodor

[Sancar]

Memiş is just a short form for Mehmet (kinda like Charles-Charlie or Francis-Frank) and it is quite common in rural Anatolia.

[TVV]

Originally Posted by Sancar

Memiş is just a short form for Mehmet (kinda like Charles-Charlie or Francis-Frank) and it is quite common in rural Anatolia.

Thanks for the clarification,

Teodor