VOC BLADES: A comprehensive look

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

A quick brief on VOC is on http://www.nusantara-delft.nl/en/his...e-voc-periode- From which I have extracted a plan of Batavia fort showing the canal system, The Governor, and a Kastane sword shown separately recorded as with a VOC blade mark.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[kronckew]

the hembrug marked blade on pg.1 of the thread is from a dutch klewang.

like this one of mine: (we've discussed these before, ad nauseum)
(mine's got a solingen made blade tho )

[kronckew]

i do have a pedang that has a numerical marking and some scroll work that looks much like some of the examples, no VOC logo tho.has no. 350 on the other side. (grip is what i use for my avatar) not sure what that 1st 18??? number is tho.

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by asomotif

A VOC blade dated 1780 in the collection of "Zeeuws maritiem museum".

Hi Willem,

Here a close up photo I have made last week visiting the museum.

I was a kind of in a hurry, but if I'm right it was from a donation somewhere in the 20th century..

[Maurice]

Though this javanese with VOC mark seems also to be collected early!
(From the Zeeuws Museum in Middelburg).

[Maurice]

PS I think the VOC mark would make the item much more valuable to collect.
For instance how much would you give for the lid of a chest with VOC mark, and how much would you pay for the same lid without the VOC mark?

:-)

[asomotif]

Originally Posted by Maurice

Here a close up photo I have made last week visiting the museum.

Hello Maurice,

You're making the best of your holidays !

Thank you for sharing these pictures.
Interesting to see a blade with "M" Middelburg marking.

The javanese style pedang with silver scabbard is realy great.

Best regards,
Willem

[Fried Krom]

All,

Attached some pictures of my VOC boarding-cutlass.

Who can identify the hilt for me?

Thanks in advance,

Fried Krom

[Maurice]

Hello Fried,

You have a good old Batak podang with VOC blade.
I have seen several podangs with VOC blade and it is always nice seeing one pop up here or there.

Best wishes,
Maurice

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Maurice

@ Erik: Thank you for posting this one. Now we have an example from before 1903! As we know Bataks allready made touristic items at the end of the 19th century, this is not the case here.
I don't think VOC marked blades where allready seen as treasures in swordcollectors collections.


I'm not sure about the provenance of this one.
A long time ago I copied the picture from a Dutch museum database. However I wasn't smart enough to write down from which database I copied it from.
I can not find so quickly where I got it from, but it's worth showing.

As far as I can remember, I thought it was coming out of the famous Visser collection, but I'm not sure.

Maurice

Salaams Maurice, Refering back to your post 44 ....I think from this source please see https://www.nmm.nl/zoeken-in-de-coll...detail/316391/ Sorry I couldnt get a translation...
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[midelburgo]

Recently I made a post including a Spanish-Philippine hilt with a blade marked 1736 and the symbol from the Amsterdam chamber of the VOC.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24137

I also mention there a couple of threads with VOC blades, not shown here:

Keris:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ies+Company%29

Japanese:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ies+Company%29

[Gavin Nugent]

To add to the diversity of regions, I've a simple early old Guom of tradtional form here with a VOC blade too.

Gavin

[JeffS]

Another to add, similar opi to examples in post #55. This blade had deep rust and very corroded, it took a lot of work to remove. Quite the surprise to find the markings. The 1741 date can be read on both sides but the VOC logo with Amsterdam stamp mostly eroded from one side but legible on the other. This is a double edged sword, same three grooves at vase of blade as examples from Tropenmuseum. Sort of a colonial full circle with the Dutch East Indies coin from 1945...

[Gavin Nugent]

A vietnamese Guom with VOC blade... no blade images currently on file...

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Gav and Jeff for reviving this thread!
When I began this in 2014, my goal was to learn more on the blades with VOC markings, and how widely diffused they were through the 'Indies' and Asia.
Also, I was curious on the convention of placing the year adjacent to the VOC balemark along with initial of the chamber (there were 6) of origin.
Most common was of course the 'A' for Amsterdam.

Most of these blades were hanger type, mostly on 'cutlass' type swords, it seems these were of course likely in use on the vessels. As typical these were held in arms stores and not 'issued' individually. However, their profound diffusion among native populations suggest these were often traded.

In "Arsenal of the World". J.P. Puype 1996 (pp.47-50, 'VOC Under Arms', C.O.van der Meij);
"...the VOC used edged weapons, albeit to a lesser extent. The swords that were given to sea captains were mostly ceremonial weapons. Soldiers that went to Ceylon got a backsword. These backswords were called 'pedarme' were thought to be more useful when climbing mountain (?) or marching through forests. There are by the way, various opinions about the way these swords looked".

As far as I know, there have not been examples of such an arming sword with backsword blade known with the VOC mark, so it adds to the topic of the marking of VOC on blades.

On p. 50 (Puype op. cit) it is noted that Asian weapons were highly sought as collectible by rich merchants who bought these and all kinds of exotic items as curiosities. While it is known that VOC troops never used native weapons, preferring their own European forms, it seems possible they might have traded the European edged weapons for native items. This was a common circumstance in colonial situations. As seen by most references on arms of these times, the emphasis was always on guns, and mention of edged weapons is almost incidental.

What I am curious about is why the year invariably in line with the VOC and kamer initial? The latest year I have seen is 1793 (VOC ended in 1796), the earliest 1736. In contrast, the English counterpart, their East India Co. (VEIC) never marked the blades of their edged weapons, only guns and locks (aside from bayonets) with their balemark.

I have understood these blades were either Solingen or made in Holland by perhaps German makers based there. The hilting seems to have been in Dutch shops.
There was a central warehouse at Kloveniersburgwal called East India House, as the arsenal for all weapons, but wonder if appropriate stamping of blades to each chamber was done there or in such location in chamber itself?

[Gavin Nugent]

Jim, thank you for your learned insights here.

Unfortunatly I cannot fully read the date on this Guom example... 17 is there and a partial 0.

The Kamer stamp is partial too... looks like "H".

There are numerous other European stamps to the blade on both sides, Equal armed crosses at each end, effectively encapsulating the date markings. There are crescent symbols that are perhaps "moons" and some other hints of markings I've yet to reveal under the thick old build up on the blade.

Length, blade is 64cms.

When considering this Preanger Gobang I had many years ago with a blade just under 51cm long, it is easy to see how the blades were trimmed to fit native applications.
Further to this, the "H" on the Guom is not large like the "A" on the Gobang and it is below the VOC markings, not above.
What all the orientation means or leads to, I cannot say.

Gavin

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Gavin Nugent

Jim, thank you for your learned insights here.

Unfortunatly I cannot fully read the date on this Guom example... 17 is there and a partial 0.

The Kamer stamp is partial too... looks like "H".

There are numerous other European stamps to the blade on both sides, Equal armed crosses at each end, effectively encapsulating the date markings. There are crescent symbols that are perhaps "moons" and some other hints of markings I've yet to reveal under the thick old build up on the blade.

Length, blade is 64cms.
When considering this Preanger Gobang I had many years ago with a blade just under 51cm long, it is easy to see how the blades were trimmed to fit native applications.
Further to this, the "H" on the Guom is not large like the "A" on the Gobang and it is below the VOC markings, not above.
What all the orientation means or leads to, I cannot say.

Gavin

Thanks so much Gav!
This is really interesting and I wish we could see the blade to see these makings in configuration as this sounds like it could be an anomaly as far as VOC blades.
If I recall there were variations in the placement of the kamer initial, the A for Amsterdam was most common; with Rotterdam and Middelburg next in commonality. I cannot say I have ever seen an 'H' which may well be for Hoorn.

Of the six chambers , in the 18th c. Hoorn lost its importance as a port city, but retained its place as a regional trade center for localities there. No idea how such subordination might apply, but thought worth noting.