Figural Dagger - Esmeralda? - Page 3

spiral · 8th December 2007, 05:03 PM

Indeed Andrew, but I meant it for Tims likely interpritation!

Nice work indeed Tim, it would be good to see the finnished work. I am sure you could get good sales if you made some Satanic themed pieces or even pretty figural ones to be sold in the Daily mail suplement!

Actualy Ive rather wondered if this one might be a skilled reproduction, with an old blade?

Spiral

Tim Simmons · 8th December 2007, 07:56 PM

Its that one hand clapper again. I would rather just go to sleep and forget the whole ugly thing.

spiral · 8th December 2007, 08:05 PM

Sleep well........

Spiral

Tim Simmons · 8th December 2007, 08:47 PM

I'm dreaming of a satanic Christmas

Andrew · 8th December 2007, 11:02 PM

I'd prefer not to lock this thread. Let's move on, gentlemen.

Any further comments should be about the subject knife. Or delivered via PM.

katana · 10th December 2007, 04:44 PM

This recently ended on eBay........... satan + dagger = ££$£$£

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA:IT&ih=014

Not so certain it is satanic

but other than the skull on the pommel, 'outwardly' it looks more like a hunting dirk. Most of the 'possible' satanic symbollism is on the blade.......'hidden' when the knife is 'sheathed'.

David · 10th December 2007, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

This recently ended on eBay........... satan + dagger = ££$£$£

Yeah, i think this is generally the case. Call something "satanic" and suddenly a whole bunch of people are willing to pay over the top prices.
This dagger seems to have some occult, or at least mythological themes to it which is not at all surprising for the time period. Consider the themes being explored by the pre-Raphaelite movement during this era. The Green Man, mythological creatures, etc. are all quite common in their palette with no practicing satanic references intended.

Tim Simmons · 10th December 2007, 07:44 PM

After very brief research one has to ask, do scenes of damnation have anything to do with "satanists" cosmology especially as true satanism is largely a 20th century concept ?

spiral · 10th December 2007, 09:05 PM

I realy dont know Tim but while researching the Esmerelda dagger I came across the French book La-bas by J. K. Huysmans published in 1891 which certanly seemed to feature Satanism.

My questian re could the the strangled skelton casting be modern work was a genuine one. I think it could be, but dont have the knowledge of sculpture you do.

I think I detect a modern air to the mans/demons appearance though.

Spiral

Bill M · 16th April 2019, 01:32 PM

With the tragic loss of Notre Dame Cathedral with especially the loss of the iconic Spire reminded me of this dagger I got from Spiral. It is one of my very favorite pieces and thank Johnathan again for letting me acquire from him.

Anne and I both cried when the Spire fell in flames.

Notre Dame is a profound loss for France and the entire world.

Jim McDougall · 16th April 2019, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill M

With the tragic loss of Notre Dame Cathedral with especially the loss of the iconic Spire reminded me of this dagger I got from Spiral. It is one of my very favorite pieces and thank Johnathan again for letting me acquire from him.

Anne and I both cried when the Spire fell in flames.

Notre Dame is a profound loss for France and the entire world.

Good call Bill in bringing this one back. I am still in disbelief this happened, and I don't think many can say tears did not come as something so iconic was seen in flames.
I know it will be restored, but the loss of so much venerated and sacred structure within as well as the loss of the spire will ever be missed.

kronckew · 16th April 2019, 05:52 PM

Just heard a news broadcast a few minutes ago, the current take on this historic tragedy is that the fire was accidental, Ironically it can then be classified as an act of God. Hopefully, it will be rebuilt in the same ways that have lasted all these centuries. With added sprinklers.

ariel · 17th April 2019, 12:08 AM

The “ iconic spire” was built by the infamous Viollet-le- Duc in the 1860’s. He installed statues of 12 apostles , 11 of whom had their backs toward the spire. The only one , St. Thomas, facing the spire was his own self-portrait.

There are very few truly old architectural memorials that were not destroyed/rebuilt several times and we still admire them as originals.

The entire City of Warsaw was leveled by the Germans in 1944-5, the Gur Emir ( Tamerlan’s mausoleum in Samarkand) had it’s lost wings rebuilt, the Imperial Palace in Budapest was destroyed by the Ottomans, by 5 sieges by Hapsburgs, the Austrians during Hungarian Revolution of 1848, the Russians in 1944 and again by the same Russians in 1956 ( another Hungarian Revolution) . Each time it was rebuilt according to old plans. Al Aksa in Jerusalem was rebuilt twice after earthquakes and restored after a major fire in 1969 when a schizophrenic Australian evangelical decided to hasten the Judgement Day.

With plenty of money and modern engineering the Notre Dame will look 100% authentic in no time. Fifty years from now its visitors will admire “genuine Gothic architecture” :-)

Jim McDougall · 17th April 2019, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

The “ iconic spire” was built by the infamous Viollet-le- Duc in the 1860’s. He installed statues of 12 apostles , 11 of whom had their backs toward the spire. The only one , St. Thomas, facing the spire was his own self-portrait.

There are very few truly old architectural memorials that were not destroyed/rebuilt several times and we still admire them as originals.

The entire City of Warsaw was leveled by the Germans in 1944-5, the Gur Emir ( Tamerlan’s mausoleum in Samarkand) had it’s lost wings rebuilt, the Imperial Palace in Budapest was destroyed by the Ottomans, by 5 sieges by Hapsburgs, the Austrians during Hungarian Revolution of 1848, the Russians in 1944 and again by the same Russians in 1956 ( another Hungarian Revolution) . Each time it was rebuilt according to old plans. Al Aksa in Jerusalem was rebuilt twice after earthquakes and restored after a major fire in 1969 when a schizophrenic Australian evangelical decided to hasten the Judgement Day.

With plenty of money and modern engineering the Notre Dame will look 100% authentic in no time. Fifty years from now its visitors will admire “genuine Gothic architecture” :-)

Thanks for the additional info on this iconic cathedral. I was looking into more on it myself, realizing just how much I had always taken for granted that it was always there. It is wonderful poignantly that virtually people from all parts of the world, even outside the Catholic Faith, are all together in mourning the severe damage to this structure.

Apparently, Notre Dame was even suffering decay at the time Victor Hugo wrote his epic novel in 1831, which he duly noted. There were restorations attempted in 1844 as well as numerous times over the years. It is ironic that the very efforts to restore and strengthen this monument caused this terrible event, but this has brought a tremendous solidarity in bringing Notre Dame back to its venerable glory, and even stronger than ever.

It continues its very purpose, its inspiration, even damaged, giving people everywhere hope, faith and strength.

ariel · 17th April 2019, 05:49 AM

For me, the most poignant moment was an old man living next to Notre Dame, who was crying: his 3 children and a score of grandkids were all baptized there.

For us, ND is an architectural marvel, for the Parisians it is a hallmark of the city, but for him it is his church where he prayed since childhood.

May he merit praying there again.

Bill M · 17th April 2019, 11:05 AM

some more history about Notre Dame, going back to 1431.

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war...rhistoryonline

BTW I highly recommend this site, https://www.warhistoryonline.com/ Great articles and many about ancient history regarding ethnographic weapons.

8th December 2007, 05:03 PM	#61
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Indeed Andrew, but I meant it for Tims likely interpritation! Nice work indeed Tim, it would be good to see the finnished work. I am sure you could get good sales if you made some Satanic themed pieces or even pretty figural ones to be sold in the Daily mail suplement! Actualy Ive rather wondered if this one might be a skilled reproduction, with an old blade? Spiral

8th December 2007, 07:56 PM	#62
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Its that one hand clapper again. I would rather just go to sleep and forget the whole ugly thing.

8th December 2007, 08:05 PM	#63
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Sleep well........ Spiral

8th December 2007, 08:47 PM	#64
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I'm dreaming of a satanic Christmas

8th December 2007, 11:02 PM	#65
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	I'd prefer not to lock this thread. Let's move on, gentlemen. Any further comments should be about the subject knife. Or delivered via PM.

10th December 2007, 04:44 PM	#66
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	This recently ended on eBay........... satan + dagger = ££$£$£ http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA:IT&ih=014 Not so certain it is satanic but other than the skull on the pommel, 'outwardly' it looks more like a hunting dirk. Most of the 'possible' satanic symbollism is on the blade.......'hidden' when the knife is 'sheathed'.

10th December 2007, 07:44 PM	#68
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	After very brief research one has to ask, do scenes of damnation have anything to do with "satanists" cosmology especially as true satanism is largely a 20th century concept ?

10th December 2007, 09:05 PM	#69
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	I realy dont know Tim but while researching the Esmerelda dagger I came across the French book La-bas by J. K. Huysmans published in 1891 which certanly seemed to feature Satanism. My questian re could the the strangled skelton casting be modern work was a genuine one. I think it could be, but dont have the knowledge of sculpture you do. I think I detect a modern air to the mans/demons appearance though. Spiral

16th April 2019, 01:32 PM	#70
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	With the tragic loss of Notre Dame Cathedral with especially the loss of the iconic Spire reminded me of this dagger I got from Spiral. It is one of my very favorite pieces and thank Johnathan again for letting me acquire from him. Anne and I both cried when the Spire fell in flames. Notre Dame is a profound loss for France and the entire world.

16th April 2019, 05:52 PM	#72
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	Just heard a news broadcast a few minutes ago, the current take on this historic tragedy is that the fire was accidental, Ironically it can then be classified as an act of God. Hopefully, it will be rebuilt in the same ways that have lasted all these centuries. With added sprinklers.

17th April 2019, 12:08 AM	#73
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	The “ iconic spire” was built by the infamous Viollet-le- Duc in the 1860’s. He installed statues of 12 apostles , 11 of whom had their backs toward the spire. The only one , St. Thomas, facing the spire was his own self-portrait. There are very few truly old architectural memorials that were not destroyed/rebuilt several times and we still admire them as originals. The entire City of Warsaw was leveled by the Germans in 1944-5, the Gur Emir ( Tamerlan’s mausoleum in Samarkand) had it’s lost wings rebuilt, the Imperial Palace in Budapest was destroyed by the Ottomans, by 5 sieges by Hapsburgs, the Austrians during Hungarian Revolution of 1848, the Russians in 1944 and again by the same Russians in 1956 ( another Hungarian Revolution) . Each time it was rebuilt according to old plans. Al Aksa in Jerusalem was rebuilt twice after earthquakes and restored after a major fire in 1969 when a schizophrenic Australian evangelical decided to hasten the Judgement Day. With plenty of money and modern engineering the Notre Dame will look 100% authentic in no time. Fifty years from now its visitors will admire “genuine Gothic architecture” :-)

17th April 2019, 05:49 AM	#75
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	For me, the most poignant moment was an old man living next to Notre Dame, who was crying: his 3 children and a score of grandkids were all baptized there. For us, ND is an architectural marvel, for the Parisians it is a hallmark of the city, but for him it is his church where he prayed since childhood. May he merit praying there again.

17th April 2019, 11:05 AM	#76
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	some more history about Notre Dame, going back to 1431. https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war...rhistoryonline BTW I highly recommend this site, https://www.warhistoryonline.com/ Great articles and many about ancient history regarding ethnographic weapons.