Keeping a keris for protection

[David]

Originally Posted by Pusaka

True, if it is a real keris (one with power) then you cant keep any isi alive without repeating the mantra/ name. To know the name of a keris is to access its power. The name is only known to the owner/ maybe the family also? If you buy a real keris how will you find out its name?

Ask it.

[Pusaka]

Originally Posted by David

Ask it.

LOL David, I dont have that problem because I'm quite sure none of my keris, including the old ones have isi. Actually I believe a keris with an isi is a very very rare thing. Only people of a very high level can create an isi. It requires a higher manasakti than the average person has. Not something that can be acquired without training in ilmu and a thorough knowledge of such things. Such people are rare indeed and therefore such keris are rare indeed.
I know that there may be many who say prayers and mantra to keris with the intention of empowering it but as a guru once told me "a keris is only as powerful as its maker" Adepts are rare people, there are many who think or declare themselves as such but when it comes down to it most of them can talk the talk but you will find few can actually walk the walk

[PenangsangII]

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

Perhaps. Should the original bloodline pass it on to someone else as mentioned, normally there would be a ceremony, for the 'transfer of ownership' with the name of the 'guardian' / 'isi', be made known... together with the accompanying rituals, based on what I understand.

Yes blood is thicker than water.....but not necessarily having the bloodline will entitle you to own a pusaka....normally the "isi" knows who can maintain the keris....and the person could be a total stranger.

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

Yes blood is thicker than water.....but not necessarily having the bloodline will entitle you to own a pusaka....normally the "isi" knows who can maintain the keris....and the person could be a total stranger.

I agree... a stranger but not a nobody.

[Raden Usman Djogja]

Lets imagine there was an unmarried buddhist/hindhuist monk commissioning a keris pusaka.

[Raden Usman Djogja]

Originally Posted by Raden Usman Djogja

Lets imagine there was an unmarried buddhist/hindhuist monk commissioning a keris pusaka.

Alam & Penangsang,

If the monk had passed away, no one have bloodline relation with him. If his keris had an "isi", will the "isi" be inactive forever?

According to "isi", in my town, a lot of people believe in "isi", not only in keris but also in stone (such as akik), talisman (e.g. rajah?!) and wood (such as warangka).

regards,
Usman

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by Raden Usman Djogja

Alam & Penangsang,

If the monk had passed away, no one have bloodline relation with him. If his keris had an "isi", will the "isi" be inactive forever?

I was told that the 'isi' would probably seek a new owner... depends on the strength of the 'isi'.

Originally Posted by Raden Usman Djogja

According to "isi", in my town, a lot of people believe in "isi", not only in keris but also in stone (such as akik), talisman (e.g. rajah?!) and wood (such as warangka).

regards,
Usman

Likewise, in the old malay world... but then again, there are a few school of thoughts, depending on different belief systems.

[pakana]

Greetings to all keris lovers,

I was wondering if someone (especially our Indonesian or Malayan friends) can enlight us about the way a keris might "react" if some thief or burglar is, for example, trying to get to someone that his house is been guarded by a keris. Only by rattling in it's sheath? Any other info that you might have heard?

George

[Raden Usman Djogja]

George,

A lot of versions. However, I think everyone will be hesitated to tell stories. For example, someone said that his keris gave a sign by rattling whenever there was a thief inside his premises. One of his listeners gave a comment that Indonesia and Malaysia are located on volcano-rings that earthquake could happen everytime. This comment is considered as logic and smart observation. On the other hand, embarassing and losing face to the source person who still has Melayu conception and culture in his dailylife.

So... it is wise not to expect to much to get magical/illogical stories in scientific/logic forum.

warm salam,
OeS

[pakana]

Originally Posted by Raden Usman Djogja

George,

someone said that his keris gave a sign by rattling whenever there was a thief inside his premises. One of his listeners gave a comment that Indonesia and Malaysia are located on volcano-rings that earthquake could happen everytime.
So... it is wise not to expect to much to get magical/illogical stories in scientific/logic forum.

warm salam,
OeS

I think that this explanation is far too simple and not so logic. Plus it underestimates the storyteller. Like he is in no position to understand if the ground beneath his legs is moving or not!


And I think that in a forum everything should be discussed, either is logic or not. I understand that the majority of people might not express their view, because they might think that they are going to lose face. Or the rest of the forum users might say they are not so "serious". Anyway,I think this is an interesting topic!

George

[Raden Usman Djogja]

George,

This is just one of stories that I collected. Years ago, in Gunung Kidul (Jogja, Indonesia), I got a story about Kiai Konang (Konang is Jawa word which means Firefly/Gloworm). Kiai Konang is a tombak (spearhead): perhaps it is classified as Korowelang shape, luks 13 and pedaringan kebak pamor.

Once day, there was a robbery attempt in the house of Kiai Konang. Knowing in dangerous situation, the owner unsheathed Kiai Konang. In short, the robbers run away.

Weeks/months later, the robbers were caught by police. In their testimonies, when they tried to steal in the house of Kiai Konang, they showed that the owner of the house held a pusaka. That pusaka sparked light/fire like firefly. Facing with odd phenomenon, the robbers run away.

After that, the spear point was given a name: Kiai Firefly.

Based on that story, we may conclude that the sign of keris/pusaka (if It can give and you believe in) varies.

warm salam,

OeS

[pakana]

Originally Posted by Raden Usman Djogja

George,

This is just one of stories that I collected. Years ago, in Gunung Kidul (Jogja, Indonesia), I got a story about Kiai Konang (Konang is Jawa word which means Firefly/Gloworm). Kiai Konang is a tombak (spearhead): perhaps it is classified as Korowelang shape, luks 13 and pedaringan kebak pamor.

Once day, there was a robbery attempt in the house of Kiai Konang. Knowing in dangerous situation, the owner unsheathed Kiai Konang. In short, the robbers run away.

Weeks/months later, the robbers were caught by police. In their testimonies, when they tried to steal in the house of Kiai Konang, they showed that the owner of the house held a pusaka. That pusaka sparked light/fire like firefly. Facing with odd phenomenon, the robbers run away.

After that, the spear point was given a name: Kiai Firefly.

Based on that story, we may conclude that the sign of keris/pusaka (if It can give and you believe in) varies.

warm salam,

OeS

[Raden Usman Djogja]

George,

One of my hobbies is to collect keris stories. Compared with my other hobby, to collect keris, It was free of charge. Only need to spend for transportation.

The hobby to collect keris stories, actually, came after. The first is aiming to collect kerises. However, as a university student in Jogjakarta, even to buy a keris which was considered as "beringharjo traditional market class", I had to save 1 or 2 months from my scholarship grant. Then, I modified. Instead of collecting/buying, I went from home to home to gather stories.

The stories have a lot of angels. Some were very interesting. Some were very boring. But, whatever te stories were my commitment was to be a good listener as far as I could. One of side positive impact to be a stories gather. I could map the distibution and the movement of pusakas in my hometown, of course outside Jogja palace. Mr So and So had Kanjeng Kiai Such and Such which based on the legend Kiai Such and Such was used for important mission once upon the time. FUNNY.... I enjoyed it. Another positive impact I always hope, whenever there is a movement keris (considered as pusaka class) and affordable at that moment, I know what should I do.

Logic and Illogic,

Based on tens people I met successfully, they told keris from logical aspects only if considering me as their new acquintance or a stranger. More they talked more they tended to tell something which was illogic aspect of keris. They called that aspect as spiritual, klenik, true-story, macrocosmos, genie, isi et cetera et cetera et cetera. In my conclution was only one: they talked about POWER of KERIS.

I dont know here, in this lovely forum, Keris Waroeng Kopi. Beside of art aspects of Keris, how deep do the members take unspoken consideration of illogical aspect of keris. However, I have never to rise that question since, imho, it is too provocative, isnt it?!

warm salam,

OeS
Romo Somo "zonder mistik, keris is less interesting"

[David]

Usman, i don't think it is provocative at all and i certain don't discourage the telling of unsubstantiated or "illogical" stories on this forum. I think what is important is the context in which they are told though. If, for instance, we are trying to come to some academic conclusion about the keris in regards to some historical or technical context, legends and stories might not be valid for that discussion. But legends and stories in and of themselves are marvelous things that even if not actually true (and some of them might be true ) can give us a deeper understanding of the culture and spirit of the people and place.
I hope you have been writing down all those stories you have been collecting.

[A. G. Maisey]

In 1978 I moved into a new house. I did not move in overnight, but moved some things in, then a week later came back and took up residence. When I came back the second time I found that my new house had been burgled. The thieves had taken everything of value---they even took a jacket and a pair of shoes.

Now, what I realised was that I had left my new house empty and without a particular keris that I knew to be very powerful in the prevention of robbery. During the next 20 odd years in that house nobody ever tried to break in again. Some of my neighbours houses were burgled, but not mine, even though my house was very easy to get into because it had a low, hidden back window that a burglar could access without being seen.

Why?

It must have been because from the day I moved into that house and lived there I had that one particular keris with me.

Not only that, but my house never ever burnt down either, and I reckon that is proof of the power of another keris that I take care of that prevents houses from being burnt down.

But its not only keris that prevent these unfortunate events from taking place. My grandmother always used to hang garlic above the windows and doors, as did one of my aunts. The aunt took extra measures too---she had a holy water font at each doorway. The purpose of the garlic was to ensure that no evil spirits entered the house, and they never did. Not in either house. So you see garlic can be a very powerful preventative too.

I could go on and on about the power of various types of preventative charms. For instance, my mother never moved outside the house without St. Christopher around her neck. She lived well into her 70's, and never, ever during her entire life was she involved in any sort of unfortunate event while travelling from one place to another.

But the whole problem is that we are surrounded by disbelievers. My next door neighbour in that house that was burgled was a manufacturer of burglar alarms, and when my house was burgled, he immediately offered to instal an alarm for me at cost. I agreed and he put motion detectors everywhere and warning stickers all over the windows. He reckoned it was his good work that kept the burglars away. Like I said---disbelievers everywhere.

[Raden Usman Djogja]

believer et disbeliever exist in every aspect of life. even in God some people trust and some others dont trust.

so... dont put our believenesses in the same basket.

to protect our house, we may use several tools: dog, swan, alarm, keris, white onion, talisman, holy book, insurance et cetera

warm salam,
OeS

[PenangsangII]

What's is the difference between "tuah pamor" and "tuah isi". Do these 2 tuahs work concurrently in guarding your self, family & properties?

[pakana]

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

Yes, I agree that tambal wengkon may not be strong enough sometimes, I have one teja kinurung and still could not be used to exorcise a haunted house. Instead, Iike I said earlier in my post, rojo gundolo would stand a better chance. In the end, the owner is still the determining factor

What do you think about Kul Buntet pamor? Some say that it's a prevention from bad things happen to you (I think Tammens), some sort of protection maybe?

george