16th July 2008, 04:16 AM | #61 |
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I will make a note - even if the blades were originally etched (and I think they were like most of those in Indonesia) many may not have been kept that way all the time, especially battle field pieces, but occasionally.
Then as time passes, the etching/staining may not stay for long due to oxidation or soft abrasion in the scabbards. I have noticed this on Indonesian pieces. My Balinese keris blade, for example, was once black and silver, but 200 years later is grey-blue and silver. In some of the museums, I have seen junggayan kris that showed the pattern welding - and the museums do not have the understanding or time to etch/stain! However, I do know that subsequent owners who brought them over to the US did as a custom of the day did polish/clean blades - PI/Moro/US Civil War/etc - and made them shiny...... |
16th July 2008, 05:01 AM | #62 | |
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16th July 2008, 09:10 AM | #63 | |
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But just to balance that out, stories are told of the practice of polishing and whitening blades before going juramentado as well. These are just old stories but may well have some basis like the term "pinuti" in visayan swords meaning to whiten. Just throwing some ideas around |
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16th July 2008, 02:24 PM | #64 |
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Well, this is just Wiki info and the actual statement is not credited, but this article also mentions polishing the weapon before juramentado.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BusterD/sandbox |
16th July 2008, 06:22 PM | #65 | |
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check out datu banquie's (sp) kris. i realize it's not close up, but it seems to be the dude's like, "check this shiny kris i got..." Last edited by Spunjer; 16th July 2008 at 06:33 PM. |
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16th July 2008, 08:10 PM | #66 | |
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17th July 2008, 01:03 PM | #67 |
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Great photo Ron. I hope we can find more like this that show the blades in an old cultural context.
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18th July 2008, 01:26 AM | #68 | |
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I did see a few years ago. Kala's the enforcer. No dropping in on someone, no shoulder hopping, Pipes too dangerous. Gotta respect. |
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18th July 2008, 02:21 AM | #69 |
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The middle sundang with the sharp luks that Ron showed in his pic; even polished you could easily see the structure within that blade .
'He so haole .......' |
20th July 2008, 04:33 AM | #70 | |
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31st December 2009, 04:18 AM | #71 |
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Apologies in advance if it's bad form to resurrect an old thread on these forums, but I remember seeing a picture not too long ago of a Datu (from Sulu, I believe) holding his Kris in the air with the sun shining in his face.
The whole blade did not glint in the sun, in fact it looked quite grey/black in the picture. The two baca-baca at the base of the blade, however, were quite reflective. I can't for the life of me find that picture now, but when I do, I'll be sure to edit this post with it. Last edited by ThePepperSkull; 31st December 2009 at 04:28 AM. |
31st December 2009, 11:10 AM | #72 | |
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31st December 2009, 02:05 PM | #73 |
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same pic with with a touch of some photo magic
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31st December 2009, 03:14 PM | #74 |
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It's that exact one! Thanks, guys.
I remember seeing it numerous times while reading about moro Kris, but when the image needs popping up, I couldn't seem to find it! |
31st December 2009, 03:44 PM | #75 |
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Looks like his feet are etched
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31st December 2009, 06:04 PM | #76 |
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Well i would say that the blade definitely appears to be etched dark in this photo so there must be some tradition to it.
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1st January 2010, 03:03 AM | #77 | ||
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1st January 2010, 06:03 PM | #78 |
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I heard that the Moro liked darker blades when they waited in ambush. Perhaps lighter blades when at home or when they wanted to make a "flashy entrance."
I recently met a Moro Princess of the Buayan Dynasty. Maybe she would know. I'll ask. She is more involved in politics, but since Datu Utto was in her lineage, she might have an opinion. |
22nd May 2013, 05:15 PM | #79 |
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Dear All,
regarding the stain on moro krisses: in a catalogue of an Pilippines exhibition in Munich from 1985 I found this kris. There is no date of acquisition in the catalogue, yet it should be between 1880 and 1926. It is also interesting with regards to this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=kris+krosses |
22nd May 2013, 10:36 PM | #80 |
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Gustav, what a great piece! Superb in condition and creation. Also great example of blades being first stained.
I might place this piece a little earlier only because of the workmanship quality. maybe 1860s - 1880s? The blade is Maguindanao. The work maybe too. Thanks for sharing. Could you also post the description please (even if it is in German)? |
23rd May 2013, 11:03 AM | #81 |
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Jose, the description is very rudimentary:
A sword with straight Kris-blade. Blackened steel with "Silbertauschierung" (silver inlays). Chased silver handle in shape of a rudimentary bird form, which carries the kris on its back (typ 1.5); length: 55 cm; Sulu Archipelago, 19. cent. Staatliches Museum für Völkerkunde München. Inv. number : 25-60-14 The writer, Rose Schubert, has an interesting, yet strange vision of the hilt: she interprets these hilts as a bird, which carries the kris on its back; this form becomes evident once the tip of the blade points upward. It makes perhaps some sense with Junggayan, yet not with simpler forms. I ask me, if description "silver inlay" is absolutely precise also. If you look closely, the silver vire seems twisted. I suppose, it could be intertwined silver and gold wire, as seen on some examples. Jose, if you are interested in the date of acquisition of this kris, I could try to ask the museum. |
23rd May 2013, 11:01 PM | #82 |
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If you would Gustav, that would be great. The blade looks Maguindanao, but yes the okir has a Sulu flair to it, even though some aspects seem Maguindanao as well.
Any extra information would be so helpful to us...... |
24th May 2013, 12:18 PM | #83 | |
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beautiful kris, gustav. similar in style with this kris:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=robotic notice the one kino posted on that same thread. Quote:
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24th May 2013, 12:39 PM | #84 | |
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Jose, I would not pay to much attention to the description. There is a picture of campilan she also describes "Sulu Archipelago", as well as the kris below. |
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25th May 2013, 06:38 AM | #85 | |
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25th May 2013, 01:39 PM | #86 | |
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yes. on the pommel of the kris in the picture you've provided, you could see the profile of the sarimanok, the mythical chicken venerated throughout Moroland. meanwhile, the more common types (I've attached a picture below, in the same position) is just that, a less elaborate form of the junggayan pommel, but nevertheless, it's the same motif. notice the triangular appendage (with a curly cue tip) on the side of the junggayan pommel. it's pretty obvious representation of the wings. you will notice the same appendages on the less elaborate pommels. the flat, angled part on the left (of the picture) of the common pommel is just an abbreviated version of the tail, while on the right is an abbreviated version of the head. such is Ukkil.. the Sarimanok is a common motif in the arts and crafts of the Moro culture, but nowhere do you see the cockatoo. |
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25th May 2013, 06:51 PM | #87 |
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Ron, thank you very much for the explanation.
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27th May 2013, 10:46 PM | #88 |
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Gustav, you have pm.
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