Torador once again.

[Pukka Bundook]

Rather than leave you worrying about the above mess, here are some pics of stage 2;

Had some very similar rosewood fortunately, for patching!

[rickystl]

Hi Richard.

WOW !!! That stock repair looks like it's coming along just fine. Great Work !!!
The use of metal rods versus wood pegs is a great idea in this case. Especially with that type of break, and the length of the butt stocks on these guns. And looks like that rosewood blended in very nice. Thanks for the pics with the update. I still like the iron mounts on these guns better than the brass mounts, especially if engraved.
YES!! I can see the hole in the rear of the breech block on yours also. OK. Used for snuffing the match. That was the only thought that occured to me. But when I looked in the hole of mine I could not see any evidence that it had been used for that purpose. Maybe it just had not been used. Also, I would think there would be some type of brass tube inside the hole for this use. But it would not really be necessary. Anyway, thanks for clearing this up. It's been one of those things that's bugged me for some time now. LOL.
Come to think of it, I have a supply of brass tubing in different diameters. Maybe I'll make a brass insert for the hole ? LOL

Rick

[Pukka Bundook]

Rick,

It just occurred to me that most decent pipes are made of rosewood, (Often called briar in smoking circles) and They don't burn away very fast, so merely snuffing a match would cause no problems whatsoever, LOL!

Pleased you think it's coming along.
The forestock had the rusty remains of a linen lining, so removed this and replaced it. New liner glued in. Then greased said liner and will grease barrel to ensure no rust forming.
I can see some areas where organic (I believe) bands have been, so will replace these as well.
Does yours have a band right at the tip of the foreend? This one has a chatty tin band there that is broken. I feel it would originally have been placed further back, on the metal re-enforcing.
I will have a look at your completed matchlock again, to see if this is of help, as they both obviously come from the same stable.

Has opportunity arisen for you to try yours yet? ...mine is getting close!

Richard.

Edited to add;
Rick, you may find this interesting! I did. :-)

http://jot101.com/2013/01/the-native...tiger-hunting/

[rickystl]

Hi Richard.

That linen lining is interesting. Never seen that before. The front barrel band on mine sits over the brass reinforcing band about an inch behind the front tip of the stock. Think I posted a pic of the muzzle here. If not, let me know and I'll post it. On my I-Pad at the moment. Have to be at my laptop.

Thanks for that Link !!! I'll read that tomorrow morning.

Haven't tried her out yet. Will probably be early Spring before I do. Can't wait

Since your's don't have any original barrel bands left, any feel yet for what you might use ?

Rick.

[Pukka Bundook]

Rick,

I can see lighter coloured lines around the stock, and darker lines around the barrel where possibly leather bands have been tied. Maybe four or five wraps on average, so can use leather, Or, I can use linen twine as I have some. Can't break it, and if waxed will last for ages.

Nice thing about an organic binding, is it doesn't hurt or alter anything and can be changed at any time! Also, such banding will tighten the barrel into the stock better than trying to make tight metal bands, and get them shoved on!........especially as the flared muzzle is larger than part of the barrel where bands would fit.

I like the idea of the organic binding. :-)

Hope you enjoy the link. I did. :-)
Just looked at Eggerton , and the Jaipur matchlocks illustrated or mentioned have leather bindings, so there we are! Also the ones in Elgood's book "Arms of the Jaipur Court " also has an example of a Jaipur -produced gun with leather bindings. Nice when what we surmise turns out to be a fact. (Not saying All had leather bindings, but they were common)

[rickystl]

Hi Richard.

Knowing what we now know lol. I too would go with the leather bands. Maybe a dark brown ? How do you think the interior of the barrel looks ?

Rick

[Pukka Bundook]

Rick,

The interior of the barrel has light pitting and a few more scaly areas.
Been wracking me brains how I can lightly emery it. Yes, I could stick emery on a rod and spin it in the drill!...But that can cause ringing if you don't keep the drill moving evenly.
I would rather scour it up and down the bore, rather than a revolving scouring.

*** I Did fire it yesterday!!!***

Went off Very fast, and no problems with bits falling off!
Sarah took some photos. :-)
Accuracy -wise not good. 50 yard group was about 15". Ball (.530") was a tad small for no patch, but was fired with a felt wad above and below, and only 60-odd grains of powder. (2F Go-Ex)
Tried a patched ball with a wad under it. (Need the wad to fill that slightly constricted area right at the breech. No chamber remember.) Said patched ball felt scratchy on the way down, and it tore the patches to bits on firing!
So, I do need to smooth up the bore a bit more. The sights work well, so it is all very promising.
It actually felt smoother already when it came to cleaning.
I noted the barrel was slightly bent, but decided to try it as it was, and it does appear to shoot a bit low.
I have in times past straightened a barrel, only to find I should have left it alone...that it was 'bent' for a purpose!
When I get some leather binding and have the barrel removed, I will alter it a bit and see how it does then. It's a lovely barrel though.

Bindings I have seen vary from dark brown to a light tan. Indian tastes being what they are, maybe even yellow, blue, or red would work! I'll see what I can find.

So, the Torador has been fired. Now it's Your turn! :-)

Best,
R.

[rickystl]

Hi Richard.

OK....You beat me to it. YAY !!! VERY COOL !!! Wonder how long it's been since it was fired ? Lol. Congratulations.
Yes, sounds like the bore needs some more work. The scale can be especially difficult. What I use to use, and still sometimes do, is a modern shotgun hone. I found that just going back and forth, manually with the hone works much better then the Emory. And cuts faster. Even better, the hone using a drill with a VERY SLOW rpm setting. They are hard to find nowadays. The slow rpm with even motion is less likely to form rings. At least that's been my experience. Works great especially with pistol length smooth bore barrels.
On long barrels, I send them to the barrel smith. He has special tools and jigs to burnish a barrel in about 10 minutes. And can do barrels up to 72 inches. And very reasonable.
The "colored" leather bands is a good idea !!! I think red would look good. But any color would probably look good. Yes, I would go with the color versus the brown or tan.
Oh good. Sarah took some pics !!! Can't wait to see the finished gun. A smoother bore and closer fitting ball will probably reduce those 50 yard groups in half.

Rick

[David R]

According to my reading and observation the bands should be rawhide, bound over silver saddle pieces so that the hide (put on wet) does not directly touch the barrel.

[Pukka Bundook]

David,

On post 27 I believe in the previous page, there are two from Jaipur shown that have leather bindings and no saddles.

Eggerton has the bindings down as "leather" and Elgood shows examples of what Looks like leather, with no saddles in both the "Islamic Arms", and "Jaipur ", (The bindings also described as leather) so it would appear that India is up to its usual tricks, of being fickle in what we should expect. :-)

I will look for rawhide and saddles, and indeed Have seen the saddle bands and have a couple with those, but not the rawhide.
If you have some pictures of these ,I would appreciate seeing them!

All the best,
Richard.

[rickystl]

Hi Richard.

I have some close up pics of the saddles. I'll post this weekend when I return from out of town.

Rick

[Pukka Bundook]

Rick,

Forgot to thank you for your ideas on cleaning up the bore. Thank you!
Will try it again and see how it goes nowI have given it another scouring out.
If it still feels rough when loading, I will find some hones I have "somewhere"!

I have a matchlock with these saddle bands, but have not seen David's saddles he mentions.
See below;

[David R]

They're described in "Stone's Glossary", and he also mentions that the binding over them can be wire.... I think that you can use near anything on a Torador, they vary so much.

[rickystl]

Hi Richard.

If you go to my Thread from January 14, and look at photo #6 and #12, you will see the so called re-enforcement saddles under two of the barrel bands on my Torador. But I believe the primary use for these was to help support the METAL bands. The reinforcing bands would not be necessary if you are using leather bindings. You could also simply use a thin piece of DRY flat leather on top of the barrel portion before wrapping the DAMP leather lacing (?). Just a thought.

Rick http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attach...d=161399&stc=1

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Rick,

Forgot to thank you for your ideas on cleaning up the bore. Thank you!
Will try it again and see how it goes nowI have given it another scouring out.
If it still feels rough when loading, I will find some hones I have "somewhere"!

I have a matchlock with these saddle bands, but have not seen David's saddles he mentions.
See below;

Hi Richard.

Finally back home. LOL That barrel band looks Afghan to me. You see this style on Jazails. But I still like the colored leather bands idea.
Shotgun Hone: There are a couple different ones out there. Here is a pic of the one I use. The stones actually pivet as you go back and forth in the bore. Would also automatically adjust to get the slightly smaller restricted area. They are very inexpensive, and you can purchase extra stone sets. Works great even by hand. Just twist as you go back and forth. They also make a polishing tool with compound.

Rick