Markings or Decorations on Mexican Swords

[Alan62]

It is a Model 1853 British Dragoon.At least from the research I have done.The blade measures 34.25 inches long with an overall length of 39.75 inches and a 1.3/8’s wide blade that is 3/8’s thick at the ricasso. It has wooden grips..It has a strong iron hilt. It appears to have been painted black at some time. The blade also has a very black patina that looks really good. One of the branches of the guard looks as if it may have been repaired some time long ago. There is no maker's mark that I can find but that is not uncommon for these type swords.


If you get a chance Matt check out my thread titled Help Identifying a sword and see the pistol that is my family heirloom

[Matt Branch]

It seems that I have come up with dead ends lately on gathering further information on my sword. This is very frustrating. I've sent e-mails to various meseum curators with no response at all. I am begining to do searches on... P.D. Luneschloss & Remscheid to see if there is any record of their exporting to Mexico.
Any Ideas?
Regards
Matt

[Matt Branch]

I thought I would post this for information sake.
Regards
Matt



Curator

San Jacinto Museum of History

One Monument Circle

La Porte (Houston), TX 77571



Dear Matt-

I have done some research based off of the swords we have in our collections, and the style is very similar to an 1820s sword (37.5” long) we have in our collection that has floral etchings and crosshatching on both sides of blade. It is inscribed: "Viva El imper-io Mexicano" (Inscription refers to Iturbide's Empire, 1822-1823.) The handgrip of the hilt is made of wood and is wrapped in heavy cord and covered with leather. The pommel is of shallow cup design and the backstrap and knucklebow are made of strips of steel with two branches terminating in a an S-shaped quillon. I know the picture is… lacking, but our photographer is booked solid through May (this is our busiest time of the year and she is only in once every other week.)



We also have a mid-century (2011.a-b) Mexican army sword and sheath with a very slightly curved blade with sharp true edge and false edge. It has an etched floral design with a Mexican eagle and snake mid-blade on both faces. It has some sort of reptile skin (may be shark skin—hard to tell due to condition) grip wrapped in brass bands. It also has a brass back strap, pommel, branched knuckle bow, and scrolled quillion. There is a Mexican eagle and snake on the guard with the inside half of guard hinged to fold flat.



In other words, we have similar weapons with as much (or in the case of the second one) more “work” on the blade, but nothing exactly like yours. We have a huge Spanish language archive, but, unfortunately no archivist to process it so I am unable to know if there is anything I there that can help you. When I need help with things like this, I tend to go to private dealers in my area—unfortunately, they charge for their opinion to the public (and they are not cheap.)



I am sorry I can not be of more help.



-Liz


Liz sent me two photos in her e-mail, they are very small so I resized them, this is the best I can get them.

[Jim McDougall]

It was very kind of the lady at this museum to respond, especially with the detailed data on thier holdings. It seems that often, especially these days, museums simply do not have the time, budget or personnel to address the many personal queries they must receive. As she has accurately noted they often charge handsomely. Also, information from dealers must be carefully guaged as thier responses may be closely associated to the marketability of thier holdings or interest in the purchase of an item for resale.

The swords of Mexico are a fascinating and colorfully historical sector in the study of arms and armor that are tremendously underresearched and represented. I am sincerely grateful that Matt has posted this sword here and kept us apprized with updates on his tenacious research on this very historic and beautifully provenaced example.
Thank you so much Matt !
All the best,
Jim

[Matt Branch]

Thanks Jim,
Liz was the most helpful of all I have contacted, and I understand the lack of time and money in museums ect we all have that some times.
I wish I could travel to some of the museums I have found on line, some say they have over a hundred edged weapons but have no photos to search through.
The photos Liz sent have left me with more questions than answers, the hilt on these two swords look very similar to mine and I would like to know where they came from, also I wish I could see the eagls she describes on one of the blades.
Jim, I have been thinking about your comment about the John Walter book and that swords were marketed along with cutlery and tableware and I am starting to follow that path to see where it may lead, do you know of any sources I can check ?
Thanks again
Regards
Matt

[Matt Branch]

Here is another reply to one of my e-mails, another confirmation of Jim's thoughts. There are 2 more curators that have said they will look into their collections when the have time.

Research Results:

From the pictures your family’s sword looks like a very interesting piece. Unfortunately, I do not think that we have much to add to the information that has already been posted on www.vikingswords.com, since your particular sword is outside of our main area of expertise (our concentration centers mostly around Medieval and Renaissance arms and armor). The closest item we have in our collection is an Ames 1833 pattern, which has already been mentioned on the thread. Our research materials contain a few images of hilts in the same general style, which seems to have been a popular one, but I could not find any exact matches. The hilt on the 1822 (pattern British infantry officer’s sword is quite similar, as are several German hilts from half a century later. From what I read, Jim McDougall has access to better material concerning the blade then I do, and his theories do sound plausible. I wish you the best of luck in your research. I know that this is an area not well covered in the standard sources, but your sword is special enough that you can hopefully find some further leads to its origin.
Jonathan Reynolds
Curatorial Intern


Also I found a small statue that is similar to the eagle on my sword on this site
http://www.mosthistory.org/Gallery
Its the 4th image, kind of small but it is perched on the cactus, I can't see if the names of the Mexican states are written on the cactus as they are on the Disternell Treaty Map, And the wing tips do point down which again is not common in Mexican eagles used as symbols.
(I hope you can click on the link.) I have not heard back from them.
anyway I am still searching.
Regards
Matt

[Matt Branch]

Mr Miller offered this information and a photo of a Mexican flag with the same style of eagle as the one on my sword, This is the first flag I have seen where the eagle's wing tips point down.


Hello Matt,

I looked at the website and read the interesting discussions about your
sword. As for the eagle decoration, it was the symbol on the coat of arms of
Mexico from 1823 to 1863. Attached is a picture of a flag captured by U.S.
forces during the Mexican War. The Eagle and Serpent is actually the symbol
of Mexico City. Legend has it that the gods told the Aztecs the place where
they should establish their city would be identified when they saw an eagle,
perched on a prickly pear cactus, devouring a serpent. Apparently they saw
this eagle where the Plaza of Mexico City now stands. You can see the
prickly pear clearly in the image from the Disturnell map. The coat of arms
was used on the flag and many official government documents. It also served
as a decoration for fine swords, and as a government stamp on the lockplates
of Mexican military firearms.

Many soldiers on both sides of the Civil War served previously in the
Mexican War; Grant and Lee are the most prominent. It's very likely the
Confederate soldier or his father captured the sword and was in turn,
captured by your great great grandfather. I know the frustration of
researching Mexican weapons, but believe you and your corespondents are
correct in attributing the sword to Peter D. Luneschloss.

I hope this answers your questions.

Sincerely,

David Miller
Associate Curator
Military History & Diplomacy

[Matt Branch]

Branch, Thomas of Flint, Mich., c.1832 born in England; Nov. 20, 1861 enlisted at Flint, Mich. as sgt., Co. I, 10th Mich. Infantry Rgt. March 31, 1863 2ndlt. Feb. 6, 1865 mustered out

1870 US Census has a Thomas Branch, stone & brick mason, living at Forest, Mich. This Branch was born in England but according to the Census was born in 1821.

JANUARY 25, 1863.--Skirmish near Mill Creek, Tenn.
Report of LtCol. Christopher J. Dickerson, 10th Mich. Infantry Rgt.

HDQRS. TENTH REGIMENT MICHIGAN VOL. INFANTRY,
Nashville, January 30, 1863.
COLONEL: In accordance with orders previously received, there have been detailed from this regiment 25 privates, two corporals and one sergeant, who are stationed at Bridge No. 3, on the Nashville and Chattanooga Railroad, about nine miles distant from this city. On the 25th. instant, about 10 a.m., an engine with a number of cars attached was started from Bridge No. 3, in the direction of La Vergne, having on board the train between 25 and 30 men, acting as a train guard. After moving out about 1½ miles, the cars were suddenly thrown from the track, in consequence of one of the rails having been slightly removed from its place.
An attack was immediately made upon the train by a band of guerrillas, numbering from 100 to 150, said to be a part of Dick McCann's force. The train guard was captured and an effort made to burn the cars and engine. Sgt. Thomas Branch, with his squad of men detailed from this regiment, hearing firing in the direction of the train, quickly started with his men to relieve the train, if possible. Upon arriving in sight of the train, about 40 rebels were observed in the act of setting the cars and engine on fire with some rails which they had collected for that purpose. Sergeant Branch, getting his men into position, moved up near the train and fired a volley at the car-burners, who immediately broke and run for their horses, which were hitched to a fence a short distance off. After recapturing the train and driving the enemy for some distance, the engine and cars were run back to Bridge No. 3.
Sergeant Branch and the men under his command are entitled to much credit for the manner in which they behaved on this occasion. They accomplished what a much larger force have often failed to accomplish under more favorable circumstances. Inclosed I forward a copy of a report made to me by Sergeant Branch.
Respectfully submitted.

C. J. DICKERSON, LtCol., Comdg. Tenth Regiment Michigan Infantry.

Col. R. F. SMITH, Commanding Second Brigade, Second Division.

Report of Sgt. Thomas Branch, Co. I, Tenth Michigan Infantry
MILL CREEK, NASHVILLE AND CHATTANOOGA RAILROAD,
January 27, 1863.
COLONEL: In accordance with your order, which I received this day, I will proceed to write a statement of facts relating to the skirmish which took place near here on the 25th instant.
The engine, with a number of cars, started in the direction of La Vergne. There were from 25 to 30 men on the cars, acting as a train guard. In a short time after the train moved, I heard firing up the track. Supposing it to be an attack on the train, I ordered my men to fall in. In three minutes we were moving on a double-quick up the track. We soon came upon a rebel mounted picket, who ordered us to halt. We replied by sending a number of shots after him. He ran, and we saw no more of him.
I now ordered 12 men to move forward as skirmishers until they came opposite the train, then rally and move toward the road. The balance of my men moved up toward the track on the right of the skirmishers. When we came within a few yards of the train we could distinctly hear the rebels at work burning the train. Some one halloed, "Tom, hurry up; the devils are burning the train!" We were now opposite the train, and I gave the command, "Rally on the right file." We soon got into line and moved up within range, when we gave them a volley. They jumped from the cars and ran for their horses, which were tied to a fence about 60 rods from the train. We gave one yell and charged on them, or I should say after them, for they had got quite the start of us. We drove them into the woods, until we saw at least two companies of cavalry in line waiting for the car-burners, who were about 40 in number. They retreated over a hill and we left them.
We now devoted our attention to putting out the fires which they had kindled on the train with rails. Some of the fires had got pretty well to going, and one car was partly burned up. After putting out the fires, we ran the train into our camp.
We captured two horses, with equipments, and several guns. How many we killed I know not. The paroled prisoners who were captured on the train say they know we killed two and wounded a number. These are the facts, as near as I can state them.

THOMAS BRANCH, Sergeant Company I, Tenth Michigan Infantry,
Comdg. Guard to Construction Train on Nash. and Chat. R. R.

LtCol. C. J. DICKERSON, Commanding Tenth Michigan Infantry.

[Indorsements.]
HEADQUARTERS FOURTH DIVISION,
February 4, 1863.
Respectfully forwarded.
Sergeant Branch acquitted himself with a great deal of credit in this spirited affair he so modestly details. Many officers of a much higher grade would not have done as well. By his courage and coolness he not only drove away the enemy, but saved to the Government valuable property. He ought to be promoted.
JAMES D. MORGAN, Brigadier-General, Commanding.
-----
HEADQUARTERS UNITED STATES FORCES,
Nashville, Tenn., February 4, 1863.
Respectfully forwarded to department headquarters.
All reports concur in attributing officerlike qualities to this soldier. I respectfully recommend his promotion.
ROBT. B. MITCHELL, Brigadier-General, Commanding.



SPECIAL FIELD ORDERS No. 33.
HDQRS. DEPT. OF THE CUMBERLAND,
Murfreesborough, Tenn., Feb. 5, 1863.
XVII. The general commanding feels great pleasure in announcing as first of his company upon the Roll of Honor of this army, Sgt. Thomas Branch, Company 1, Tenth Michigan Volunteers. In command of a squad of 25 men, Sergeant Branch, on the 25th of January, hearing the firing of the rebel guerrillas on the construction train on the Nashville and Chattanooga Railroad, disposed his men in an admirable manner, moved them at double-quick to the front of attack, and charged upon a force more than double his own numbers, and supported by still larger reserves, put them to flight at the point of the bayonet, and then recovered and brought back with him the engine and cars, which had been thrown from the track and set on fire. It is such conduct as this that makes men soldiers, and that the general commanding is proud to honor.
By command of Major-General Rosecrans:
H. THRALL, Captain and Assistant Adjutant-General.



Source: Record of Service of Michigan Volunteers 1861-65
Official Records of the War of the Rebellion

[Matt Branch]

Inquiry of Matthew Branch: Sword of P.D.L.

Conclusion: This is probably a lower ranking Mexican cavalry officer's
presentation sword, intended to be carried in battle.

Blade: The blade on the sword is probably mid 19th century of the 1799
Pattern. The straight double edged blade is a pre-1799 design. In 1799 a
newer version of the 1728 Pattern blade (minor changes) was attached to a
dragoon hilt. A second version of the blade had a single edge. In 1803 a
curved blade was created for light cavalry, but the straight blade retained
its popularity among conservative Spaniards. The 3-fuller design with a
hexagonal blade is probably the most common blade type found in New Spain.
The blade appears to have been hilted in a common style of the 1820's in
Mexico (though it could be Spanish, German or British).

Hilt: The simple pommel cap design was introduced in the late 1790s, though
the style had been used on the Spanish dragoon sword since 1768. The hilt
design was common in the early 19th Century (see many of the dragoon swords
used by French and British). I cannot determine from the photograph whether
the hilt is steel or brass. The knuckle bow guard is a common 3 bar or
branch hilt.

Grip: The palm grip is probably pine. It is most likely covered in calfskin
which is common on Mexican hilts. The braided wire is a common feature of a
Mexican officer's sword.

Blade decoration: This has a common martial decoration. The eagle and snake
art tends to be crude, the wings being less broad and the head and neck
being less bold and beautiful than is used as a Mexican symbol in the late
half of the 19th century. This eagle is similar to the 1823 first official
Mexican flag design (see the 1859 Mexican eagle dollar for a similar eagle).



Notes:

AHS possesses a Mexican presentation dress sword (cerca 1890) with a similar
blade design (cannon, drum and eagle with snake-eagle is more refined), a
Spanish dragoon saber (post 1799) with etching that is similar (etching
appears to be added in a later period), and an A.L. de Santa Ana
presentation sword that has similar etching.



Spanish Military weapons in Colonial America 1700-1821, Brinkerhoff and
Chamberlain Pg 73 & 88
The Price Guide to Antigue Edged Weapons, Leslie Southwick, 1982

Swords and Hilt Weapons, 1989

Richard A. Collins

[Matt Branch]

Hello Matt,

I looked at the website and read the interesting discussions about your
sword. As for the eagle decoration, it was the symbol on the coat of arms of
Mexico from 1823 to 1863. Attached is a picture of a flag captured by U.S.
forces during the Mexican War. The Eagle and Serpent is actually the symbol
of Mexico City. Legend has it that the gods told the Aztecs the place where
they should establish their city would be identified when they saw an eagle,
perched on a prickly pear cactus, devouring a serpent. Apparently they saw
this eagle where the Plaza of Mexico City now stands. You can see the
prickly pear clearly in the image from the Disturnell map. The coat of arms
was used on the flag and many official government documents. It also served
as a decoration for fine swords, and as a government stamp on the lockplates
of Mexican military firearms.

Many soldiers on both sides of the Civil War served previously in the
Mexican War; Grant and Lee are the most prominent. It's very likely the
Confederate soldier or his father captured the sword and was in turn,
captured by your great great grandfather. I know the frustration of
researching Mexican weapons, but believe you and your corespondents are
correct in attributing the sword to Peter D. Luneschloss.

I hope this answers your questions.

Sincerely,

David Miller
Associate Curator
Military History & Diplomacy