Spanish ?? I.D. Help Needed - Page 2

celtan · 13th January 2011, 11:36 PM

I'm sorry, my mistake. I opened the wrong .pdf and copied its tittle. Thank you Nando, I do have that one too,

JULIÁN DEL REY: NUEVOS DATOS SOBRE SU FIGURA POR GERMÁN DUEÑAS BERAIZ

and another

LA MARCA DEL PERRILLO DEL ESPADERO ESPANOL JULIAN DEL REY por J. J. Rodríguez Lorente

If you wish, I can send you the last one.

Thank you again

Manolo

BTW, wouldn't it be nice if the website had a place to store documents such as these?

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

I have that one in my 'favorites'; the author is the same, but the stuff is different ... specifically concentrated on Julia Del Rey.
Sure you don't want a copy?
You don't know what your'e missing

Jim McDougall · 14th January 2011, 12:00 AM

Interesting example Manolo, and it shows a bit more stylized scallop shell effect in the smallsword style as noted with bilobate guard. The more colonial style espadas mentioned, and that appear to correspond to a similar example with supported provenance to Brazil, are with a semi bowl type effect, as shown in the example attached which is from an earlier post by Mark Eley (the lower sword of the two').

The shellguard is much more workmanlike in stylized representation that is very much like the example you have shown in configuration, note the pierced dots between striations. I have seen examples with a smaller shell opposing the front one, but not quite bilobate, in the same exact styling, striation and dots. These are clearly colonial work, and often are mounted with trade blades of end of the 18th century.

With the espada ancha, I have not yet found an illustration, but these from the same period in colonial New Spain have the shellguards downward as in a langet and same plane as the blade. They are of course singular and many are in the cockleshell or scallop shell design, with many stylized variations which often defer to an open shield type form and simple lines rather than radiating striations.

The running wolf has generally held to represent early guild marks in Passau, which was soon adopted elsewhere as a quality symbol, particularly in Solingen as thier blademaking industry grew. In later years, the figure which in many cases resembled the obscure stylized wolf marks, but also in many cases was clearly rampant rather than running, is also believed to have had to do with guild marks in Spain. In these instances, much as other commonly seen marks in Italy for example, these guild marks were typically applied in concert with makers marks, and not indicative of a maker in particular.

When these type marks evolved out of that context, and associated with trade blades, then copied by native smiths, the special attention to the mark was interpreted as its possessing magical, amuletic and quality characteristics.

That really is a beautiful example of rapier you posted, can you say more on it?

Best,
Jim

celtan · 14th January 2011, 06:07 PM

Hi Jim,

Can't add anything about the sword, only that it sold for$850 several years ago. I saved the pics for "future" (today) reference...

M

14th January 2011, 12:00 AM	#32
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,896	Interesting example Manolo, and it shows a bit more stylized scallop shell effect in the smallsword style as noted with bilobate guard. The more colonial style espadas mentioned, and that appear to correspond to a similar example with supported provenance to Brazil, are with a semi bowl type effect, as shown in the example attached which is from an earlier post by Mark Eley (the lower sword of the two'). The shellguard is much more workmanlike in stylized representation that is very much like the example you have shown in configuration, note the pierced dots between striations. I have seen examples with a smaller shell opposing the front one, but not quite bilobate, in the same exact styling, striation and dots. These are clearly colonial work, and often are mounted with trade blades of end of the 18th century. With the espada ancha, I have not yet found an illustration, but these from the same period in colonial New Spain have the shellguards downward as in a langet and same plane as the blade. They are of course singular and many are in the cockleshell or scallop shell design, with many stylized variations which often defer to an open shield type form and simple lines rather than radiating striations. The running wolf has generally held to represent early guild marks in Passau, which was soon adopted elsewhere as a quality symbol, particularly in Solingen as thier blademaking industry grew. In later years, the figure which in many cases resembled the obscure stylized wolf marks, but also in many cases was clearly rampant rather than running, is also believed to have had to do with guild marks in Spain. In these instances, much as other commonly seen marks in Italy for example, these guild marks were typically applied in concert with makers marks, and not indicative of a maker in particular. When these type marks evolved out of that context, and associated with trade blades, then copied by native smiths, the special attention to the mark was interpreted as its possessing magical, amuletic and quality characteristics. That really is a beautiful example of rapier you posted, can you say more on it? Best, Jim Attached Images Last edited by Jim McDougall; 14th January 2011 at 05:34 PM.

14th January 2011, 06:07 PM	#33
celtan Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: PR, USA Posts: 679	Hi Jim, Can't add anything about the sword, only that it sold for$850 several years ago. I saved the pics for "future" (today) reference... M