Figural !

[Battara]

Did not realize there was such a variation of hilts......

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Battara

Sorry for not responding - thank you.

Also I did the gold mounts myself (hope they are not too aweful.... )

Haven't realised that it isn't original!

[Jean]

Three peculiar Javanese hilts in figural style.
Regards

[Battara]

That last one - is that ivory and wood?

[David]

Originally Posted by Battara

That last one - is that ivory and wood?

Looks that way to me Rick. A more figural version of the "wadon" style of hilt that some folks call "durga". Very cool hilt whatever you call it...

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Battara

That last one - is that ivory and wood?

Yes, correct, ivory inserts on wood, the piece has some age.
And I attach 3 more javanese figural hilts including the "Durga" style mentioned by David.
Regards

[Sajen]

Just have bought this very fine carved ivory handle from the North coast of Java or Madura (picture from the ebay listing). Will post by time more handles of this type.

BTW, does someone know why ivory handles from North Java often are blackened?

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Sajen

BTW, does someone know why ivory handles from North Java often are blackened?

I have no idea in your case but I have one blackened tapak kuda hilt from Central Sumatra made from antler or bone (apparently not resin from the "dentist" drilling test of the peksi). In my case I think that the dying was made because these hilts are traditionally black but why was it not made from black buffalo horn? May be the former owner did not like the original white colour?

[Gustav]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Just have bought this very fine carved ivory handle from the North coast of Java or Madura (picture from the ebay listing). Will post by time more handles of this type.

BTW, does someone know why ivory handles from North Java often are blackened?

Sajen, I see some suspicious little bulbs on this hilt. I hope I am wrong.

[A. G. Maisey]

Sajen, I could always be wrong, but I must say that I have never seen an ivory hilt that was blackened as heavily as this one is; the pattern of this hilt is a very prevalent one for recently made hilts. My gut feeling is that you will find it to be made of some substance other than ivory, but there may be a small ring of ivory glued to the base of the hilt.

It is an unfortunate fact of life that when dealing with sellers in Indonesia things are very often not what they are presented to be. You may not have bought this directly from Indonesia, but somebody did.

Let me tell you about a silver gilt hilt that I bought many years ago in Malang.

Absolutely beautiful hilt, old style gilt, superb workmanship, and a price to match, but it was gilded and thus just about impossible to test to see if it was silver or not. Luckily there were a couple of high spots on the face where the gilt had worn off and the silver was exposed, so I took it to a jeweller in a nearby stall and had these spots tested. They tested positive as silver. I bought this beautiful hilt and paid silver price for it --- there is a big difference in price between silver objects and copper or brass objects.

It took me several years before I discovered that the exposed high spots on the face of this hilt were tiny specks of silver that had been added to the copper base of the hilt, for the express purpose of being exposed to allow a test for silver.

I've been flim-flammed many times in Indonesia --- and a few times in other places too. Its called "education".

[Sajen]

Dear Jean, Gustav and Alan,

thank you for respond and opinion. I agree with Alan, I am as well never have seen a such blackened ivory hilt before but all I have seen before were very worn. And agree with Gustav and Alan that it could good be possible that it is an other material as I have hoped to see. But as you know I like to gamble by ebay. And the price I have paid (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-VINTAGE-BA...vip=true&rt=nc) was one which is ok for a gamble. We will see if it was winning gamble when I have received it.

Regards,

Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Detlef, $100 is not much to gamble. No matter what the hilt is made from, the total object is probably worth what you paid for it. I used to buy similar objects at a similar level many years ago, its probably a good learning exercise, but its empirical learning. I'm certain that if you remain interested in keris, that sooner or later you will find that your money is better protected and your collecting experience enhanced by buying from slightly more reliable sources than ebay. Living in Europe as you do, I feel that you would find many available sources if you put in the time to look.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Yes Detlef, $100 is not much to gamble. No matter what the hilt is made from, the total object is probably worth what you paid for it. I used to buy similar objects at a similar level many years ago, its probably a good learning exercise, but its empirical learning. I'm certain that if you remain interested in keris, that sooner or later you will find that your money is better protected and your collecting experience enhanced by buying from slightly more reliable sources than ebay. Living in Europe as you do, I feel that you would find many available sources if you put in the time to look.

You're correct Alan, I have used such sources and still use them but on the other hand I've got keris & keris handles from ebay by prices I would have paid a lot more by this sources, remember this: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=tajong or this: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=donoriko.


Best regards,

Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes, I guess you're right Detlef. I sometimes tend to forget that not everybody has either the same taste, nor access to the same sources that I have.

My apologies for questioning your wisdom.

[David]

I still gamble now and then on eBay. I would say i've "won" that gamble more than lost. This figurative hilt and keris were an eBay purchase at a superb deal. No sheath :-( , which probably kept the bidders away.

[David]

I should note that José added that moonstone ring on the hilt. This sliver piece was missing when i purchased it.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Gustav

Sajen, I see some suspicious little bulbs on this hilt. I hope I am wrong.

Very good eye Gustav, you have been correct. Learning lesson!

[David]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Very good eye Gustav, you have been correct. Learning lesson!

hmmm....so is it a composite casting...

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by David

hmmm....so is it a composite casting...

Yes, David, indeed. But have luck, the sheath coming with the keris fit very well with a single keris blade I have.

Regards,

Detlef

[Marcokeris]

Banjarmasin

[Marcokeris]

Java

[David]

These last 2 postings show nice hilts Marco, but they don't quite meet the definition of "figural". Certainly they have features that are meant, in their abstract way, to hint at human or animal form, but to my mind these are abstract hilts attempting to disguise the figural form probably due to Islamic restriction of such depiction.

[A. G. Maisey]

No comment.

[Sajen]

Some more.

[Sajen]

more

[Marcokeris]

Figures

[Marcokeris]

...

[Marcokeris]

...

[Marcokeris]

..

[Jean]

Hello Marco,
Striking & nice pictures, thanks!
Regards