Filipino swords and axes in the 13th Century? - Page 2

migueldiaz · 21st March 2009, 10:26 AM

..... ....

migueldiaz · 21st March 2009, 10:28 AM

..... .....

migueldiaz · 21st March 2009, 10:30 AM

last page (Visayan warfare) ...

migueldiaz · 21st March 2009, 10:32 AM

Here's what the raiding ship looks like, from the same book ...

migueldiaz · 21st March 2009, 10:33 AM

[Bicol warfare section, 3 pages total ...]

migueldiaz · 21st March 2009, 10:34 AM

[Bicol, p. 2]

migueldiaz · 21st March 2009, 10:34 AM

[Bicol, last page]

migueldiaz · 21st March 2009, 10:37 AM

[Tagalog warfare section, 8 pages]

migueldiaz · 21st March 2009, 10:39 AM

[Tagalog, 2nd page]

migueldiaz · 21st March 2009, 10:41 AM

[Tagalog, 3rd page]

migueldiaz · 21st March 2009, 10:41 AM

[Tagalog, 4th page]

migueldiaz · 21st March 2009, 10:42 AM

[Tagalog, 5th page]

migueldiaz · 21st March 2009, 10:43 AM

[Tagalog, 6th page]

migueldiaz · 21st March 2009, 10:44 AM

[Tagalog, 7th page]

migueldiaz · 21st March 2009, 10:45 AM

[Tagalog, last page]

Nonoy Tan · 21st March 2009, 05:40 PM

Steve,

I forgot to mention...

Islam was introduced to the Philippines after the period of the Song Dynasty (i.e. Ming Dynasty).

Take note too that is was during the period of the Song Dynasty when the Tausug (of Northeast Mindanao) migrated to the Sulu archipelago.

Good Luck...

Nonoy

migueldiaz · 23rd March 2009, 02:49 AM

The caption does not say the age of the artifacts.

But the gold items directly beneath the blade of the dagger looks 10th to 13th century (just a guess, based on similar artifacts displayed in a museum mentioned earlier).

Note also that the shape of the dagger is similar to the blade shape of the "bolo" of the Zambal upland tribesmen, as illustrated in the Boxer Codex (i.e., images of Filipinos circa 15th to 16th century).

Zambales (home of the Zambals) by the way was the site for the former US naval base, Subic.

migueldiaz · 23rd March 2009, 02:53 AM

Some more color images from the Boxer Codex ...

migueldiaz · 22nd May 2009, 12:01 PM

I found another source material though it's not quite 13th century.

Below is an excerpt from Giovanni B. Ramusio's Delle Navigationi et Viaggi (Venice 1554, 2nd edition), Vol. 1, fol. 375-v.

I was planning to buy a copy but I thought that my wife will hack me to pieces

if she finds out the price (anywhere from Usd 48,000 to 65,000!).

So here's the geographer's description of Mindanao, and note the blade weapons mentioned:

"This island is very large: after circumnavigating it, we found it was 2,200 kilometers around, and extends mainly east and west ... It is inhabited by many and varied people: there are Moros, gentiles, and different kings and lords who wear certain clothes without sleeves, short, like marlottas which they call patolas, and the rich have them of silk like tafetta, and the other people of cotton and in different styles. They have many offensive arms of iron and steel, such as scimitars, daggers, and spears: and defensive arms they make of animal hide, which is tougher and stronger than that of Anta. In a certain part of the island which the Moros rule over, there is small artillery. There are pigs, deer, and buffalos in that island, and other animals of the chase, and Castillan chickens, and rice and palms and coconuts ..."

The 'small artillery' for sure refers to the lantaka.

The interesting word to research further however would be 'scimitar'.

So the question is, would anybody know what it says in the original text?

Hope somebody can take a peek at an original copy of this publication

migueldiaz · 9th July 2009, 05:20 AM

At last, there's photos available regarding 10th to 13th century Filipino artifacts.

Below are pics of some of the items permanently displayed at the Ayala Museum in Manila.

These gold hilts (about 4 to 4.5" long) and gold buckles & belts, were excavated in northeastern Mindanao (Agusan and Surigao provinces if I recall correctly).

migueldiaz · 9th July 2009, 05:26 AM

The 10th to 13th century Filipino gold exhibit is a huge collection by the way.

Unfortunately for us, artifacts relating to weaponry are few.

In any case, anybody visiting Manila should definitely see this wonderful collection (there must have about a thousand gold artifacts in there).

Below are excerpts from the flyers of Ayala Museum.

KuKulzA28 · 17th July 2009, 09:44 PM

Thanks migueldiaz for posting this. I am very interested in anything from the SE Asian islands, and you have posted a treasure trove of info!

21st March 2009, 10:26 AM	#31
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	..... .... Attached Images

21st March 2009, 10:28 AM	#32
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21st March 2009, 10:30 AM	#33
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	last page (Visayan warfare) ... Attached Images

21st March 2009, 10:32 AM	#34
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	Here's what the raiding ship looks like, from the same book ... Attached Images

21st March 2009, 10:33 AM	#35
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	[Bicol warfare section, 3 pages total ...] Attached Images

21st March 2009, 10:34 AM	#36
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	[Bicol, p. 2] Attached Images

21st March 2009, 10:34 AM	#37
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21st March 2009, 10:37 AM	#38
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	[Tagalog warfare section, 8 pages] Attached Images

21st March 2009, 10:39 AM	#39
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21st March 2009, 10:41 AM	#40
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21st March 2009, 10:41 AM	#41
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21st March 2009, 10:42 AM	#42
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21st March 2009, 10:43 AM	#43
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21st March 2009, 10:44 AM	#44
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21st March 2009, 10:45 AM	#45
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21st March 2009, 05:40 PM	#46
Nonoy Tan Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 293	Steve, I forgot to mention... Islam was introduced to the Philippines after the period of the Song Dynasty (i.e. Ming Dynasty). Take note too that is was during the period of the Song Dynasty when the Tausug (of Northeast Mindanao) migrated to the Sulu archipelago. Good Luck... Nonoy

23rd March 2009, 02:49 AM	#47
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	The caption does not say the age of the artifacts. But the gold items directly beneath the blade of the dagger looks 10th to 13th century (just a guess, based on similar artifacts displayed in a museum mentioned earlier). Note also that the shape of the dagger is similar to the blade shape of the "bolo" of the Zambal upland tribesmen, as illustrated in the Boxer Codex (i.e., images of Filipinos circa 15th to 16th century). Zambales (home of the Zambals) by the way was the site for the former US naval base, Subic. Attached Images

23rd March 2009, 02:53 AM	#48
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	Some more color images from the Boxer Codex ... Attached Images

22nd May 2009, 12:01 PM	#49
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	I found another source material though it's not quite 13th century. Below is an excerpt from Giovanni B. Ramusio's Delle Navigationi et Viaggi (Venice 1554, 2nd edition), Vol. 1, fol. 375-v. I was planning to buy a copy but I thought that my wife will hack me to pieces if she finds out the price (anywhere from Usd 48,000 to 65,000!). So here's the geographer's description of Mindanao, and note the blade weapons mentioned: "This island is very large: after circumnavigating it, we found it was 2,200 kilometers around, and extends mainly east and west ... It is inhabited by many and varied people: there are Moros, gentiles, and different kings and lords who wear certain clothes without sleeves, short, like marlottas which they call patolas, and the rich have them of silk like tafetta, and the other people of cotton and in different styles. They have many offensive arms of iron and steel, such as scimitars, daggers, and spears: and defensive arms they make of animal hide, which is tougher and stronger than that of Anta. In a certain part of the island which the Moros rule over, there is small artillery. There are pigs, deer, and buffalos in that island, and other animals of the chase, and Castillan chickens, and rice and palms and coconuts ..." The 'small artillery' for sure refers to the lantaka. The interesting word to research further however would be 'scimitar'. So the question is, would anybody know what it says in the original text? Hope somebody can take a peek at an original copy of this publication

9th July 2009, 05:20 AM	#50
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	At last, there's photos available regarding 10th to 13th century Filipino artifacts. Below are pics of some of the items permanently displayed at the Ayala Museum in Manila. These gold hilts (about 4 to 4.5" long) and gold buckles & belts, were excavated in northeastern Mindanao (Agusan and Surigao provinces if I recall correctly). Attached Images

9th July 2009, 05:26 AM	#51
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	The 10th to 13th century Filipino gold exhibit is a huge collection by the way. Unfortunately for us, artifacts relating to weaponry are few. In any case, anybody visiting Manila should definitely see this wonderful collection (there must have about a thousand gold artifacts in there). Below are excerpts from the flyers of Ayala Museum. Attached Images

17th July 2009, 09:44 PM	#52
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Thanks migueldiaz for posting this. I am very interested in anything from the SE Asian islands, and you have posted a treasure trove of info!