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29th April 2007, 03:29 PM
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#31 |
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Posts: 407
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Yes it is a huge and amazing book. The photos are lovely, and show the folding patterns very well which is hard to do. There is one funny blooper I noticed in the Korean section where it twice mentioned the Japanese invasion of Korea in 1952. "whatchagonado"
Josh |
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29th April 2007, 08:26 PM
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#32 |
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Location: Madrid / Barcelona
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Hola, Antonio.
As you can see, is only a question of finding the right kind of bait  By the way, I have to say that dealing with Mike at Shadow of Leaves has been a dream, also. |
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30th April 2007, 01:03 AM
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#33 | |
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Location: Macau
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Quote:
But for long, when people pointed out these typos that do happen, I used to remind them that for each typo that passed 100 were spotted and corrected. 
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30th April 2007, 01:07 AM
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#34 | |
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Location: Macau
Posts: 294
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I see  Actually I lost your contacts. When a computer hard disc goes crazy, or when I moved apartments, that was lost  Anyways, I think that Michael Crampton from Shadow of Leaves is a most honorable gentleman and everyone was well serviced I am sure. |
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30th April 2007, 02:50 PM
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#35 |
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Posts: 407
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I totally understand about the very infrequent typos. I am sorry I mentioned it. The date reversal did not detract at all, but it was slightly amusing. The look of the book overall is quite good. As I said, the photos are works of art in their own right, and show some very special pieces. I am most interested in the Chinese section where the catalogue helps on a subject where there is very little information available in English. Someday I wish there could be information on Chinese swords that approaches the information on Japanese swords, but at the moment, the field of Chinese sword scholarship is simply not mature enough.
There is one particular sword that I would love any more information on that you might be able to locate. The Ming dynasty willow leaf sword (#94) with the horse tooth pattern welding and the nickel silver fittings is one of the most beautiful sabers I have ever seen. Is there any information on its provenance? The medial ridge on the blade and the lobed guard are certainly things found on Ming swords, but I was wondering what other information was used to date it. It appears to be a very important piece. Thanks for your help, Josh |
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30th April 2007, 09:40 PM
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#36 | ||
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Location: Macau
Posts: 294
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Quote:
It is very difficult to keep a tri-lingual catalog like this free of typos. The eyes get tired on the revision, and as known, we read by words and so if it type worng instead of wrong we will still read it correctly.There are many books in Chinese about swords, but not translated to English... As for the bronze pieces, it is amazing to show the ring knife was already in existance in jade and it went all along through Han. Then I have seen a Song piece which is curved, in a Dao shape  It is documented in the stone rubbing below  Quote:
Hope this helps. |
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30th April 2007, 10:06 PM
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#37 |
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Posts: 987
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The interesting thing about this horse-tooth pattern is that even Zhou Zheng Wu, a master smith, has been unable to duplicate it. He said its one of those mysteries of ancient Chinese swordmaking that he has yet to unravel.
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30th April 2007, 10:09 PM
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#38 |
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Location: Macau
Posts: 294
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Oh boy, I wish I had such a memory Mark
 Well, after all it is 5:00 AM. Thanks
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2nd May 2007, 05:47 PM
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#39 |
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Posts: 407
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I asked about that saber because while the willow leaf blade with a medial ridge, and the four lobed guard are Ming characteristics, the sword as a whole looks distinctly 19th century. The round pommel and the style of the decorations are all 19th century. This does not detract in any way from the saber's importance as a historical artifact and a work of art, but I don't want people to be mislead by the dating. It is easier for a 19th century piece to have some earlier characteristics than it is for an earlier piece to have stylistic elements that are hundreds of years later. Is it possible the blade had its fittings replaced?
Josh |
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3rd May 2007, 02:22 AM
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#40 | |
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Location: Macau
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Quote:
I believe there is much more out there than whatever typology we know and want to classify and put a sword into. Why would a round pommel and four lobbed would be specific of the Qing Dynasty? Just because someone wrote it is? I won't ever dare to say I am a specialist on Chinese swords, but I guarantee I have seen many in different places and even if I had studied Chinese swords for 10 years I would never classify as a specialist. The thing is that one of the characteristics of Chinese swords is their emergence and then back to oblivion and again reemerging into use.  Take this example. I would say you have never seen one such sword. Would it be Ming or Qing?  This is surely a tricky one. There were a couple of swords that were just bare blades, while the one you refer to was mounted and fortunately not restored. We presented it as bare blades such as this one, number 93  or this one, number 94  Zhou had the good sense of not restoring anything except the handle of this one at my own request, because of the beautiful pommel, number 99:  I would therefore doubt that Zhou would have made any restorations. Furthermore I am sure that very few people know that ancient jian had a tip polish that originated the yokote?  An ancient jian tip restored to its former glory. Cheers
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3rd May 2007, 02:46 AM
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#41 |
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Posts: 407
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Thank you for the detailed reply. I was not saying that Zhou made a restoration, I am wondering if one had been done sometime in the 19th c. and whether the Ming attribution was for the blade, which could be Ming, or for the whole piece, whose fittings look more 19th century. It is not just the round pommel that is usually but not necessarily 19th century; it is also the way the patterns are cut into the fittings. I freely admit I am a beginner at this, and my experience is only with the more commonly seen things. That is why I am so curious about what appears to me as Qing being labeled Ming. I would like to know what makes it Ming so I can see those characteristics in the future on other pieces. Dating by style is a very uncertain technique but the only one available for many pieces. I need every clue I can get.
Thanks, Josh |
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3rd May 2007, 04:13 AM
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#42 | |
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Location: Macau
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Quote:
I have no clue if those fittings were added at a later stage. The sword was classified as Ming, so we went with what was on Zhou's own Museum. To my Chinese culture experience, things are often repeated as I said before. Chinese Song painters imitated Tang masters, Ming artists imitated Song Masters and so forth. We see the same confucianist inspired approach in Japan, in that there are only 5 sword schools until today, so it is very difficult to define when a pattern really appeared but it can suddenly sprout to fashion .An example is the fact that Tang Dynasty women  and their headress and clothes with a cut and a ribbon like Josephine would wear many centuries later  Have definitely influenced Korean national dress and as the ribbon got wider and wider, it gave birth to the Kimono. This is what makes history and swords so interesting as one can extrapolate into other areas. Sorry about my rants, but I love this kind of connections.
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3rd May 2007, 03:56 PM
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#43 |
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Posts: 407
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Absolutely, stylistic anachronisms are common and a source of much interest. One of my favorite areas of study is the connection between Tibetan and Chinese swords. The Tibetan swords maintained the Tang dynasty style blade that early Japanese blades were based on. There are many examples of styles appearing hundreds of years from when they were most common. There is a whole class of usually short jian with iron fittings that are in a Ming style but which may be late nineteenth century. I have not talked with anyone who can definitively tell when they were made. In my own collection I have a Yi minority chopper that looks exactly like the Song dynasty shoudao that are depicted in Thomas Chen's website. I am fairly certain my chopper was made between 1920 and 1950.
One of my great hopes is that the carbon dating techniques being developed for steel will find their way to museums so that we can finally have some definitive dates. (http://radiocarbon.library.arizona.e...pplication/pdf) Josh |
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3rd May 2007, 07:15 PM
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#44 |
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Posts: 987
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Antonio,
Why is it that just the tip was polished? It's a beautiful effect, but seems sort of curious. I don't know if this one is typical, but it also seems to be a "deeper" polish than the lighter polish Zhou described, which is intended to look like clouds (as opposed to moving water, I suppose). |
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3rd May 2007, 07:44 PM
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#45 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,725
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Mark, I think we're seeing an artifact of the lighting and angle. The way the sword was photographed looks like it highlights the tip, rather than the blade. A slight adjustment would likely blurr the tip and bring the blade polish into focus.
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3rd May 2007, 10:53 PM
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#46 |
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Posts: 987
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Ah. So its the fact that it has that facetted tip geometry, not that the tip is polished differently from the rest of the blade.
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3rd May 2007, 10:57 PM
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#47 | |
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Location: Macau
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Quote:
We are in total agreement. I'm totally alien to Tibetan blades so I'm not the right person to ask. So far I understand that the Silk Road played an important part on the connection, but not necessarily exclusive. We once thought about the Met in NY for collaboration but the Weapons curator was busy with an exhibition on Tibetan swords. You should check out about it.
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3rd May 2007, 11:08 PM
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#48 | |
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Location: Macau
Posts: 294
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Quote:
It was polished differently from the Chinese traditional way, but there was a change in geometry as you say below. I purposedly focused the tip and my own shadow darkened the lower part of the blade, so Andrew is right. This would give birth to the so called yokote in the Japanese blade. In the Jomon period chokuto both from China and Korea (ring pommel swords) were used mainly for stabbing, hence the ring to use the hand for pressing/pushing. Many people think of Katana just for cutting, forgetting the stabbing purpose. |
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11th May 2007, 02:35 PM
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#49 |
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Posts: 65
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Hi ,
Feedback to say that my wife has phoned me to say that the catalogue from Macau has arrived ! So all seems to be in order re purchasing from the link recommended. Can't wait to open the packet . Thanks everyone |
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11th May 2007, 05:34 PM
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#50 |
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EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,219
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I am FREAKED! (and not just a freak
 ). Even my wife was impressed (and her eyes glaze over when you say "sword"  ) . Better than I was expecting - being used to small flimsy exhibition catalogs. Pictures are fantastic and large - a great resource for me. I love it. Your folks should be commended. Maraming Salamat!
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11th May 2007, 11:01 PM
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#51 |
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 371
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My copy arrived yesterday as well, it is fantastic. I could become a lot stronger carrying it around
The people at the Macau end sorted out my ordering errors without any fuss at all. Very highly recommended on all fronts.Thanks to everyone involved.cheers DrD |
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21st May 2007, 05:52 PM
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#52 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 737
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MARVELLOUS!!
TODAY HAD ARRIVED MY COPY AND IŽN VERY HAPPY!!! THANKS!! CARLOS |
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22nd May 2007, 01:43 AM
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#53 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Macau
Posts: 294
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Quote:
I guess we like to freak out people. The thing is that Macau is a tax paradise and the Chinese are extremely laborious people like all South East Asians, so they work really hard and because there are no taxes, the machinnery is much more affordable and really high tech. Then the paper is Japanese and again it does not suffer taxes, so the end product will cost less than 1/8 of what it normally would cost in Europe or North America. Well, thanks my friend, but I have in the past refused commendations but you guys who contributed are the guilty ones I'm really glad you all kept in the boat, because what counts is a honest and honorable stance in life and we do appreciate your trust in us at the Museum Maraming Salamat to you too
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22nd May 2007, 01:46 AM
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#54 | |
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Macau
Posts: 294
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Quote:
Macau Post Office is one of the fastest in the world to my knowledge. It is amazing that the mail men don't know Portuguese at all, but the mail never gets undelivered. Oh, and Kong Seng, the Mother Company from where you ordered is very reliable. Otherwise the Museum would not use it. Thank you
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22nd May 2007, 01:48 AM
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#55 | |
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Location: Macau
Posts: 294
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Estoy muy contento de saber que hay llegado bien Did you order from Macau? Thanks
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22nd May 2007, 03:57 PM
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#56 | |
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Posts: 737
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thanks
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THANKS AGAIN CARLOS |
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