Turkish knife - Page 2

erlikhan · 20th November 2005, 09:55 PM

ariel, I have heard the reverse about ww2 period from a Karaim (only one I have met in fact). He claims descending from Hazars, but i know that Judaism didnt spread among all Hazar nation, just the ruling dynasty and close environment of them. The community was multi religional, Shamanism, Christianity, Islam and Judaism on a big land. Perhaps that can explain Karaim's having small population but I didnt know their settling in Spain.
Donmes have always been the "men of every period" and estimating the upcoming wind and rotating their sails through that direction in close history ( perhaps not so unethical and not blaming for this). Their supporting Ataturk must be evaluated just inside this frame. One family from them has even a very fundementalist Islamic imaged holding of companies. I don't know any government against which they have seemed to fall into opposition .
And if we return to the symbol , according to me Rivkin's approach about the Kabardins is highly possible, -if their tribal symbol is a 6 p. star within a crescent, and the same symbol is seen on several shashkas-, it seems very acceptable to me. I will count points on shashka stars more carefully from now on

ariel · 20th November 2005, 11:26 PM

Khazars, just like Ghengiz Khan Mongols, were remarkably tolerant in terms of religion. You are right: Khazar kingdom had virtually every kind of religious belief practiced freely. Something we all can learn from.

Rivkin · 21st November 2005, 04:21 AM

Those who want to read about "blood ancestry" in the region I would refer to the following articles:
http://www.familytreedna.com/pdf/Nasidze_2003.pdf
http://www.familytreedna.com/pdf/caucasus.pdf
http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJH...013033.web.pdf
http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJH...023927.web.pdf

erlikhan · 21st November 2005, 09:08 PM

What Khazars succeeded is admirable in Middle age, but before the middle eastern religions with single god spreaded around all world, every nation was quiet respectful to each other's religion, and as far as I know, no famous war occured becuase of trying to force some people to change religion, or no collective jihad or crusade was formed against members of another religion in the era when each tribe had their own gods and religions. That is called "primitive" today but it is interesting how sociologically "final step of religious evolution" described today's religions which claims brothership and united humankind practically means the brothership of huge fan groups involved in a neverending fight against other groups by the certain order of these religions and dramatic increase in religion based wars. In "primitive" times no religion had so big ambitions and hunger for all world, and did not use its followers for such ideas, not? Not related to subject but just wanted to write as I always have found it interesting. Evolution or devolution if the subject is the happiness and comfort of humankind??

20th November 2005, 09:55 PM	#31
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	ariel, I have heard the reverse about ww2 period from a Karaim (only one I have met in fact). He claims descending from Hazars, but i know that Judaism didnt spread among all Hazar nation, just the ruling dynasty and close environment of them. The community was multi religional, Shamanism, Christianity, Islam and Judaism on a big land. Perhaps that can explain Karaim's having small population but I didnt know their settling in Spain. Donmes have always been the "men of every period" and estimating the upcoming wind and rotating their sails through that direction in close history ( perhaps not so unethical and not blaming for this). Their supporting Ataturk must be evaluated just inside this frame. One family from them has even a very fundementalist Islamic imaged holding of companies. I don't know any government against which they have seemed to fall into opposition . And if we return to the symbol , according to me Rivkin's approach about the Kabardins is highly possible, -if their tribal symbol is a 6 p. star within a crescent, and the same symbol is seen on several shashkas-, it seems very acceptable to me. I will count points on shashka stars more carefully from now on Last edited by erlikhan; 21st November 2005 at 08:37 PM.

20th November 2005, 11:26 PM	#32
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Khazars, just like Ghengiz Khan Mongols, were remarkably tolerant in terms of religion. You are right: Khazar kingdom had virtually every kind of religious belief practiced freely. Something we all can learn from.

21st November 2005, 04:21 AM	#33
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	Those who want to read about "blood ancestry" in the region I would refer to the following articles: http://www.familytreedna.com/pdf/Nasidze_2003.pdf http://www.familytreedna.com/pdf/caucasus.pdf http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJH...013033.web.pdf http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJH...023927.web.pdf

21st November 2005, 09:08 PM	#34
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	What Khazars succeeded is admirable in Middle age, but before the middle eastern religions with single god spreaded around all world, every nation was quiet respectful to each other's religion, and as far as I know, no famous war occured becuase of trying to force some people to change religion, or no collective jihad or crusade was formed against members of another religion in the era when each tribe had their own gods and religions. That is called "primitive" today but it is interesting how sociologically "final step of religious evolution" described today's religions which claims brothership and united humankind practically means the brothership of huge fan groups involved in a neverending fight against other groups by the certain order of these religions and dramatic increase in religion based wars. In "primitive" times no religion had so big ambitions and hunger for all world, and did not use its followers for such ideas, not? Not related to subject but just wanted to write as I always have found it interesting. Evolution or devolution if the subject is the happiness and comfort of humankind??