barrels with tube fastening in 1470-80

[Matchlock]

Originally Posted by Spiridonov

3 beautiful barrel from Heeresgeschichtliches museum in Wienna. They all made from bronze. Length of upper barrel is about 575 mm. Calibre is about 15 mm. I don't know exactly because i have put my scale through the glass.
Michael, Do You know parameters of he upper handgonne?
p/s it looks like barrels from Bulgaria.

Hi Alexander,

I sadly do not have the measurements of these haquebuts in Vienna but I can tell you that all of them can be dated to the late 15th c. up to ca. 1500, and that all were Austrian, mostly Styrian productions made by barrelsmiths like Sebald Pögl, who also furnished pieces for other armories, e.g. those in Bulgaria and Czechia. That's why they look so similar.

Best,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

Thank You, Michael. Some barrels from Pilsen looks like barrel from the NRA. Can we assume that all barrel of this type is about 1500 year or some barrel from Pilsen collection is earlier?

[Matchlock]

Originally Posted by Spiridonov

at this picture
this barrel have number 5
but it have number 7 at this picture

have this barrel
this parametras 99.8; 15.4; 26;
or this 96; 13.1; 26
It is a very important becaese i want to make a replica of this. And every millimeter is very impotant
p.s.
Thanks for the help. I apologise for too many questions. Excuse me

Hi Alexander,

I looked up the haquebut in question in the Zeitschrift für Historische Waffenkunde, vol. 2, 1900-02, p. 264, and Sixl identifies this piece no. 7 with the following measurements:

weight 13.1 kg
materials wrought iron and oak
length of barrel including socket 96 cm
length of bore 79.1 cm
cal. 26 mm
touchhole four-sided, on right hand side
hook moveable, 10 cm rear of muzzle

Interesting enough, Sixl did not mention the length of the tiller stock but this will be easy for you to find out by the relations of the whole gun.

Have fun!,
and best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

Originally Posted by Spiridonov

Thank You, Michael. Some barrels from Pilsen looks like barrel from the NRA. Can we assume that all barrel of this type is about 1500 year or some barrel from Pilsen collection is earlier?

Hi Alexander,

This type of barrel is of basic latest Gothic form and can be generally attributed to the 'late 15th c.', which means ca. 1480-90. Admittedly it is rather unusual to be found as late as the early 16th c. like in the case of Pögl's haquebuts but Pögl by then was already an old man and worked together with his son, so he seems to have continued the oldfashioned style.

In other words: wouldn't we know Pögl's mark and working life dates, I too would assign his haquebuts to 'ca. 1480-90'.

Best,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

Michael, I am grateful to you. I should have to call You my teacher because a lot of my knowledges about early firearms was given to me by You
Danke

[Matchlock]

Spasiba, Alexander,

Go on working and studying like this and you soon will surpass your teacher!

Best,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

The beautiful bronze handgonne from Göteborg
http://carlotta.gotlib.goteborg.se/p...bjMasidn=35125
I think it late 15 century (the front side of the muzzle let us to suggest it)

[Matchlock]

Hi Alexander the Great ,

Another great and astonishing find, thank you very much for sharing!

I think your dating is exactly right, and post the photoshopped (though low-rez) pics.

Thanks again,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

It seems that hook has been broken. Look at the Berns chronics. We can see the muzzle neb of absoulutly similar shape.
Michael, i remember that You discussed barrel that looks like this cut in half
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...2091&highlight
But I think that it is not early 15 century. I guess it much later
By the way this museum is not so far from Saint-Petersberg. So, It is possibly that I will visit this museum to make some photos of this handgonne

[Matchlock]

Originally Posted by Spiridonov

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...2091&highlight
But I think that it is not early 15 century. I guess it much later

Now that you beat me at my own game ( ) I have to admit you were right: that curious double barrel haquebut actually should be dated 'late 15th c.' as well!

Thank you so much again, and of course additional images would be great if you could take them!

And as to the hook, I of course agree it was either cut of broken off.

Best,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

The barrel of absolutely similar type ( handgonne from Kalmar (Sweden))
http://mis.historiska.se/mis/sok/bild.asp?uid=315308
http://catview.historiska.se/catview.../highres/48315
http://catview.historiska.se/catview...highres/103066

[Spiridonov]

absolutely unique barrel (I have never seen this type before)
http://carl.kulturen.com/pls/carlott...n_masidn=45820

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Spiridonov

absolutely unique barrel (I have never seen this type before)...

Ah, the type of cannon i would like so much to have .


-

[Matchlock]

Hi Alexander,

The shape of this mid-15th c. tiller barrel without showing an accentuated, reinforced breech is highy unusual indeed. There is another, similar though preserved in the famous Princely collection at Konopiste Castle, Czechia: tiller stock missing, barrel ca. 1450, length 49.5 mm, cal. 39 mm!

Best,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

Thank You for sharing! Have it chamber or not?

[Matchlock]

I marked the touchhole which markes the beginning of the breech (powder chamber); behind it is the tiller socket (now empty).

m

[Spiridonov]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

I marked the touchhole which markes the beginning of the breech (powder chamber); behind it is the tiller socket (now empty).

m

I mean chamber tapering inside of barrel (Like on Tannenberg handgonne). This barrel both was made with very high quality and have a very thin sids. We can see similar barrels on this Spanish tapestry

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=tapestry

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Spiridonov

... We can see similar barrels on this Spanish tapestry ...

You mean Portuguese

[Spiridonov]

Originally Posted by fernando

You mean Portuguese

Of course, I'm sorry

[Matchlock]

[QUOTE=Spiridonov]I mean chamber tapering inside of barrel (Like on Tannenberg handgonne). [/QUOTE.

I think this should be actually called a bore narrowing behind a bell-mouthed or widened muzzle.

I have often found this with a lot of 15th c. barrels when exactly measured, e.g. with my own famous haquebut barrel dated 1481, which you yourself handled in my collection. I think it was just an easy method to simplify loading the gun, especially with any kind of shot.

Please ref.: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ich+dated+1481

Anyway, youre doubtlessly right concering the unusually thinness at the bronze muzzle walls - that's really astounding, especially for bronze! Seems to have worked in a way, though ...


Best,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

I think this should be actually called a bore narrowing behind a bell-mouthed or widened muzzle.

Michael I mean not a bore narrowing but this part of barrel:

[Matchlock]

Hi Alexander,

I don't know whether this barrel has a narrowed bore at the breech but regarding its date I doubt it has.

Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

An unusually large (135 cm long) and heavy (ca. 15 kg) wrought iron tiller-socketed haquebut barrel, ca. 1490-1500, sold at the Dorotheum Vienna a few days ago. It fteched more than 9,300 euro.
On top of the end of the socket (tube) you can see the nail hole for fixing the (now missing) tiller. A bit further to the right, there is the touch hole on the right hand side.
As the later-added barrel loops and the hole in the hook indicate, it was alterated for a full stock during its working life, most probably in the 1520's, the Peasants' Wars. It must also have been then that a dove-tailed igniting pan was attached to the touch hole (now missing); the dovetail is still visible.

Best,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

http://www.handgonne.com/gonne_1a.html
Michael, I think that 14 is the wrong date. What do You think about this barrel? It dont't looks like european at all

[Matchlock]

It's of Chinese origin and probably 18th c., that's why it doesn't look European. There are many of these around on the market.

Best,
Michael

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

It's of Chinese origin and probably 18th c., that's why it doesn't look European. There are many of these around on the market.

Best,
Michael

Oh ... i almost dared to say so myself, but prefered to wait for the master

[Swordfish]

A German bronze hackbut c.1470-1500. Lenght 780 mm,
Bore 20.5 mm Weight 11.8 kg

[Matchlock]

Good job, Swordfish,

Where is this barrel, which was originally fitted with a tiller stock and later alterated to full-stock, preserved?

Best,
Michael

[Swordfish]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Good job, Swordfish,

Where is this barrel, which was originally fitted with a tiller stock and later alterated to full-stock, preserved?

Best,
Michael

Unfortunately I don`t know what you mean. The Kronburg hackbut?

[Andi]

Here are two hackbuts from Sweden:

http://www.historiska.se/data/?foremal=123316
With remains of the wooden shaft. Found in Skåne in the region of Norra Åsum, this one is undated. Barrel 101 cm, calibre 19 mm

http://www.historiska.se/data/?foremal=115866
Found in Stockholm, dated to the late middle ages. Barrel 106 cm, calibre not mentioned.