Palembang Keris for your comment

[Jean]

Originally Posted by sirek

Hello Jean,
If pineapple juice does not work because the rust is too thick ,I move on to electrolytic derusting using:
- any battery charger in the 4 amp to 20 amp range will work. (The lower the current, the longer it will take to get the job done)
Connect the Negative lead to the part that you want derusted!!!
-for the solution: About a tablespoon of household / washing soda to a gallon of water. (Fine bubbles will rise from the object when cleaning is in progress)
-after some hours scrub with Scotch Brite , rust scale is loosened and can be easily removed. Un-rusted metal is not affected in any way.


http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...cleaning+blade

Hello Sirek,
Thank you very much, I forgot this thread and will try it!

[tunggulametung]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

As to whether rust should be removed or not, I cannot understand why this should be in question. It doesn't depend on one's personal preference for visual effect, it depends on whether one wishes to assume responsibility for the ongoing maintenance of the keris, or not. If yes, there is no option but to remove the rust. Rust that appears to be stable can easily be reactivated and a blade with stable rust requires a higher degree of awareness. A keris should not have any rust, not only because of the need for maintenance, but because of its status as a cultural icon and the obligations attached to that status.

As a general rule, yes, I'm agree with your statement. A keris shouldn't be left rusted in the first place. But honestly, for me, there are time when a blade is better to leave with some old rust in it than loosing its original geometry/details, i.e. loosing jenggot/greneng or corroded edges. In that case I would use mechanical/abrasive method to push the rusted spot flat. Perhaps blade geometry is very important to me as how pamor or tangguh important to others.

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I agree that wax is perhaps preferable to oil for a blade with a smooth finish. For modern custom knives I would always opt for wax, but for most blades from SE Asia, where the surface often has a high degree of topographic relief, weld imperfections, erosion, & etc, I don't really think that wax is a viable option.

Alan we are not speaking about Grinling Gibbons carvings. In that case I would use different brush to apply and buff.

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

The horn hilted blade bears many features that would permit it to be classified as Surakarta, however, it is impossible to give it this classification from a photograph, bearing in mind the long term association of Palembang with Central Jawa, it is more likely that this keris is a Palembang copy of a Surakarta keris.

Thank you for your opinion. The geometry reminds of a classical Javanese blade indeed as if when it come with pamor I would think it is a Javanese trade blade. It would be interesting to hear if other members have different view.

Originally Posted by sirek

Hello Jean,
If pineapple juice does not work because the rust is too thick ,I move on to electrolytic derusting using:
- any battery charger in the 4 amp to 20 amp range will work. (The lower the current, the longer it will take to get the job done)
Connect the Negative lead to the part that you want derusted!!!
-for the solution: About a tablespoon of household / washing soda to a gallon of water. (Fine bubbles will rise from the object when cleaning is in progress)
-after some hours scrub with Scotch Brite , rust scale is loosened and can be easily removed. Un-rusted metal is not affected in any way.


http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...cleaning+blade

Thank you Sirek.

Haven't done that for a while Jean, but I post example on this thread
I may add that less water (I use hot water to start with) and more sacrificial metal surrounding the object being clean seems to speed up the process as well.

The left over carbon on tiny crevices can be clean easily with soft wire brush or with acid if required to minimize the acid corroding good metal (as in acid soaking).

On a ganja iras blade it is perfectly safe, but on regular blade especially one with a bad fit/corroded pesi/omah-omahan pesi, the risk of splitting joint is present, but I can't confirm this could happen.

[A. G. Maisey]

TA, when I state an opinion, it is usually an opinion that has been formed by what I have been taught.

One of the things I have been taught about the keris is that we often do not have the luxury of a personal opinion if we wish to observe the traditions of respect that are attached to the keris.

Because of my training and my background I often feel that I am obliged to act in a particular way, and in fact my principal teacher drummed this obligation into me time and time again. Essentially my obligation is this:- I have the obligation to return to as good condition as possible any keris that comes into my hands.

No keris is in as good condition as possible if it is allowed to remain rusted.

However, what I have just recounted is only my position. I have this obligation, but many other people do not, so if you, or anybody else feels that a keris is happier being rusted and dirty, that is of course your prerogative.

I'm sorry TA, but your reference to Grinling Gibbons escapes me. I thought he was a wood carver? Did he work in ferric material as well?

[Gustav]

Originally Posted by tunggulametung

Thank you for your opinion. The geometry reminds of a classical Javanese blade indeed as if when it come with pamor I would think it is a Javanese trade blade. It would be interesting to hear if other members have different view.

Pamor isn't the crucial matter here, even with pamor it would be a Palembang blade.

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Gustav, you're right, the pivot point is not whether it has pamor or not, but I think what TA might mean is that stylistically this a Javanese blade, probably Surakarta or maybe Banten, and that if it did have pamor it could influence him to think that in fact it came from Jawa, but because it does not have pamor it influences him more towards a Palembang origin.

In fact, from a photo I wouldn't be prepared to give any definite opinion, photos only ever convey a very limited amount of information, doesn't matter how good they are.

[Gustav]

Regarding Central Javanese inspired Palembang blades, it is very interesting for me to notice, there seem to be no switch to "internal" greneng till the end of Keris production there, the greneng stays external like on older Javanese or Bali blades.

Also interesting, there are Palembang blades of nearly the same age with both squarish and Solo style Blumbangan.

Here is a link to detail pictures of a good Javanese inspired Palembang blade (please scroll down, yet also the whole thread is very recommended)

http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum.../000307-2.html

[A. G. Maisey]

I don't take a lot of notice of "internal" and "external" greneng, Gustav, but what you say about Palembang keris that follow the Majapahit line, and Palembang keris that follow the Mataram line is very true. There are also Palembang keris that follow the Sunda line, with boto rubuh. I don't know why this should be, but my guess is that the styles would vary depending on the model that the maker was using. I believe these South Sumatra makers would have been using models, rather than composing out of their head, they would have been trying to be correct by following Jawa, and what they produced depended on the model they had to follow. No proof for this, just an idea.

[jwkiernan]

Hey guys! Love seeing/reading all the comments! Many way over my head for now, but definitely taking note! Thanks again and hopefully can get some more keris up for you all shortly! Thanks again!

All my best,

John