MADURA ornamental hilts - Page 2

ganjawulung · 22nd June 2008, 06:34 PM

Michael, Marco, Alan and Jonng, thanks a lot for your beautiful pics of maduran hilts. Very useful comparison...

Ganjawulung

A. G. Maisey · 23rd June 2008, 12:36 AM

I selected these hilts for posting because, as I have said, each hilt is a little bit different in some way from the usual run of Madura hilts. I paid no attention to quality, only to whether there was something a bit different in form or motif.When we come down one level, and look at the individual components of the various motifs, some of the inclusions in Madura hilt motifs can create much food for thought.

Rick · 23rd June 2008, 01:37 AM

Here is yet another .

ganjawulung · 23rd June 2008, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Many years ago a friend who was associated with the kraton in Sumenep told me that hilts bearing the flying horse were Suminep origin, and hilts that bore the crown were Pamekesan origin.

Thank you, Rick. Not only cock'c head. Sometimes I see a horse head hilt too. And the ornament bearing figure of flying horse as Alan mentioned, called by maduran: "kuda panolih" (picture below), and also crown ornament in another one...

ganjawulung · 23rd June 2008, 04:08 AM

And this picture below, a contemporary Maduran hilt, a horse-head hilt...

VVV · 23rd June 2008, 08:58 AM

Thanks all for sharing.

I am puzzled by the bird-headed Janggelan hilts (# 3, 11, 15 of Alan's hilts).
It's strange that I haven't seen them represented in the European old collections.
Could they be later than the other variations, did they became more popular after independence or are they just much more rare?

Michael

A. G. Maisey · 23rd June 2008, 09:56 AM

Pretty scarce things, Michael. Some of the hilts I've posted here are about as rare as you can get, I've got well over 100 Madura hilts, I've been collecting hilts for as long as I've collected keris. A couple of what I've shown here are probably not going to be seen anywhere else.I can assure you that you are not looking at recent hilts.

Marcokeris · 23rd June 2008, 12:30 PM

Here another (Maybe the pattern of the top of this kind of Madura hits comes from a parrot's beck

)

BluErf · 23rd June 2008, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Hilt 2

Many beautiful hilts! Thanks to all for sharing. I've always wondered how come there are so many loose Madurese hilts around, and so little of them attached to Madurese kerises?

Regarding this hilt 2 from Alan, I would like to ask if the selut/mendak is a Madurese style?

Thanks.

A. G. Maisey · 24th June 2008, 12:29 AM

The selut + mendak on #2 is made in one piece, that is, the selut is not separate to the mendak.The mendak section of this fitting is similar to some Madura mendak that I have. However, although this fitting is old, it does not appear to be as old as the hilt, and the patination under the selut seems to indicate that originally a different selut may have been fitted.I do not think that this fitting can be regarded as typical of a Madura style, even though it does give some indication that it is of Madura manufacture.

David · 24th June 2008, 04:03 AM

I believe i showed some of these before, but in a different context.

ganjawulung · 24th June 2008, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I believe i showed some of these before, but in a different context.

The horse-hilt in your first pic is unique, David... And I think, the last hilt in your last pic is ivory, isn't it? (Below, another pics on Madura hilt and sheath. A madurese mediium-size keris, with maduran gayaman -- madura people call it "gabilahan". Flying horse -- kuda panolih -- ornaments in both, the hilt and also in the gabilahan sheath).

ganjawulung · 24th June 2008, 09:06 AM

"Kuda Panolih" is the name of Sumenep kingdom's symbol. It depicts a flying horse -- in the Maduran mythology, it is the horse of Joko Thole (a Maduran army commander in the past). And the name of the horse is "Megaremeng" (cloudy sky). Joko Thole had a sibbling brother, named Banyek Wedi then became a nobleman in Gresik, East Java. That is mythology, of course.

ganjawulung · 24th June 2008, 09:54 AM

This is another motif of "kuda panolih" with "crown" above the horse. Also, kuda panolih motif in the hilt...

David · 24th June 2008, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

The horse-hilt in your first pic is unique, David... And I think, the last hilt in your last pic is ivory, isn't it?

Ganja, every time i look on the forum my photos seem to change order of appearance. Right now the ivory hilt is posted first.

There are 2 horse hilts. One is bone and the other is wood. I don't think the wood one is unique because i have seen the same pattern before, though i don't think those were executed as nicely as this one. There is a lot of fine detailed carving on this one with many areas of through and through carving that are very skillfully done.
Your last ivory hilt is quite appealing to me. Thanks for posting.

VVV · 24th June 2008, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Pretty scarce things, Michael. Some of the hilts I've posted here are about as rare as you can get, I've got well over 100 Madura hilts, I've been collecting hilts for as long as I've collected keris. A couple of what I've shown here are probably not going to be seen anywhere else.I can assure you that you are not looking at recent hilts.

Well, that answers my question.
I also find your hilt #7 quite unusual as it, IMHO, resembles a Ganesha hilt?
Or is it just the picture angle?

Here is another unusual Madura ornamental hilt, but of the Janggelan family.

Michael

ganjawulung · 24th June 2008, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

There are 2 horse hilts. One is bone and the other is wood. I don't think the wood one is unique because i have seen the same pattern before, though i don't think those were executed as nicely as this one. There is a lot of fine detailed carving on this one with many areas of through and through carving that are very skillfully done.

David, your first horse-hilt looks like Bali "kocet-kocetan". But the second, I think it depicts "megaremeng" -- the flying horse of the Madura legend, Joko Thole. Pls regard the horse's wing carving... Usualy, "megaremeng" only carved in "kuda panolih" symbol...

David · 24th June 2008, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

David, your first horse-hilt looks like Bali "kocet-kocetan". But the second, I think it depicts "megaremeng" -- the flying horse of the Madura legend, Joko Thole. Pls regard the horse's wing carving... Usualy, "megaremeng" only carved in "kuda panolih" symbol...

Well, the bone one certainly isn't from Bali and i am pretty sure it is meant to be a horse, not a kocet-kocetan.
If you look around the base of the bone horse you can see the same circular designs that are around the base on the wood hilt.
I have indeed noticed the stylized wings on the wooden horse hilt and agree that it is meant to be a flying horse.

A. G. Maisey · 25th June 2008, 12:20 AM

Hilt # 7 does have a similar profile to the Ganesha hilts from Cirebon, but that's where it stops. I cannot find anything in the motif detail that indicates that there was an intent to create a Ganesha.

I haven't seen a Janggelan with stars. Unusual.

ganjawulung · 25th July 2008, 05:23 PM

Another example of a madura hilt, with rather unordinary motif... (Quite similar to David's hilt in #41)

Rick · 25th July 2008, 07:14 PM

Very nice .

Here's another .

A. G. Maisey · 26th July 2008, 12:00 AM

Another couple.

Funny thing:- I've never seen any older examples of this type.

ganjawulung · 10th February 2009, 06:22 AM

Dear All,

Apologize me, for reviving the old thread of Maduran hilts. I am posting this, after BluErf said in another post about "swastika ornaments" in some Cirebon hilts. But here, I found in this hilt of my collection, a Maduran hilt with supposed to be "swastika ornaments" as BlueErf said...

Just an intermezzo....

GANJAWULUNG

erikscollectables · 10th February 2009, 08:10 PM

Hi Ganjawulung,

this was the thread I meant, thanks for bumping it up again!
I have seen this swastika before in a Madura hilt, that was also in wood.
so it might be a rare but returning motif also in Madura.

Regards, Erik

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Dear All,

Apologize me, for reviving the old thread of Maduran hilts. I am posting this, after BluErf said in another post about "swastika ornaments" in some Cirebon hilts. But here, I found in this hilt of my collection, a Maduran hilt with supposed to be "swastika ornaments" as BlueErf said...

Just an intermezzo....

GANJAWULUNG

Rick · 10th February 2009, 08:33 PM

Another .
Not too uncommon .

ganjawulung · 11th February 2009, 12:09 PM

Dear All,

This is a quite strange model of Maduran hilt -- a double-headed creature, with wild boar front face and bird rear face. Carricatural design?

GANJAWULUNG

Alam Shah · 11th February 2009, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Dear All,

This is a quite strange model of Maduran hilt -- a double-headed creature, with wild boar front face and bird rear face. Carricatural design?

GANJAWULUNG

The back, maybe represents garuda mungkur in a more realistic rendition..

ganjawulung · 13th February 2009, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

The back, maybe represents garuda mungkur in a more realistic rendition..

Yes, thank you Shahrial, for your "sharp eyes" -- your very careful observation -- on such ornamentation. I've checked too in "Wayang Ensiklopedi" by Mr Bambang Harsrinuksmo (Senawangi Jakarta, 1999 -- Volume 2), and I found Shahrial is right...

"Garuda Mungkur" or usually spelled in a speed-javanese as "Gruda Mungkur" is a type of ornamentation in Wayang art (javanese) -- head ornamentation or crown ornamentation behind the head. Most styles in Javanese wayang -- whether it is Surakarta, Yogyakarta, Cirebon, Kedu, Kaligesing, Banyumas, East Java and Bali style -- they use "gruda mungkur" ornamentation in different expressions.

Not only 'raksasa' (demon, giant) wayang figures have 'gruda mungkur' ornamentation, but also some 'ksatria' (knight), 'patih' (prime-minister)and also some female wayang figures...

These pictures below, are some examples on "gruda mungkur" (litterally means 'garuda facing backward') in 'raksasa' figure and Anjani (a goddess in wayang, wife of Batara Guru the highest god)

GANJAWULUNG

rasjid · 13th February 2009, 05:27 PM

Another ... sorry for the picture quality. Its the best I can manage at this stage.

Rick · 13th February 2009, 06:37 PM

Beautiful work !

22nd June 2008, 06:34 PM	#31
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Thanks a lot Michael, Marco, Alan and Jonng, thanks a lot for your beautiful pics of maduran hilts. Very useful comparison... Ganjawulung

23rd June 2008, 01:37 AM	#33
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Here is yet another . Attached Images

23rd June 2008, 04:08 AM	#35
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Horse-head Hilt And this picture below, a contemporary Maduran hilt, a horse-head hilt... Attached Images

23rd June 2008, 12:30 PM	#38
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Here another (Maybe the pattern of the top of this kind of Madura hits comes from a parrot's beck ) Attached Images

24th June 2008, 09:06 AM	#43
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	KUDA PANOLIH "Kuda Panolih" is the name of Sumenep kingdom's symbol. It depicts a flying horse -- in the Maduran mythology, it is the horse of Joko Thole (a Maduran army commander in the past). And the name of the horse is "Megaremeng" (cloudy sky). Joko Thole had a sibbling brother, named Banyek Wedi then became a nobleman in Gresik, East Java. That is mythology, of course.

23rd June 2008, 12:36 AM	#32
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	I selected these hilts for posting because, as I have said, each hilt is a little bit different in some way from the usual run of Madura hilts. I paid no attention to quality, only to whether there was something a bit different in form or motif.When we come down one level, and look at the individual components of the various motifs, some of the inclusions in Madura hilt motifs can create much food for thought.

23rd June 2008, 08:58 AM	#36
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks all for sharing. I am puzzled by the bird-headed Janggelan hilts (# 3, 11, 15 of Alan's hilts). It's strange that I haven't seen them represented in the European old collections. Could they be later than the other variations, did they became more popular after independence or are they just much more rare? Michael

23rd June 2008, 09:56 AM	#37
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Pretty scarce things, Michael. Some of the hilts I've posted here are about as rare as you can get, I've got well over 100 Madura hilts, I've been collecting hilts for as long as I've collected keris. A couple of what I've shown here are probably not going to be seen anywhere else.I can assure you that you are not looking at recent hilts.

24th June 2008, 12:29 AM	#40
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	The selut + mendak on #2 is made in one piece, that is, the selut is not separate to the mendak.The mendak section of this fitting is similar to some Madura mendak that I have. However, although this fitting is old, it does not appear to be as old as the hilt, and the patination under the selut seems to indicate that originally a different selut may have been fitted.I do not think that this fitting can be regarded as typical of a Madura style, even though it does give some indication that it is of Madura manufacture.

24th June 2008, 04:03 AM	#41
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	I believe i showed some of these before, but in a different context. Attached Images

24th June 2008, 09:54 AM	#44
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	This is another motif of "kuda panolih" with "crown" above the horse. Also, kuda panolih motif in the hilt... Attached Images

25th June 2008, 12:20 AM	#49
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Hilt # 7 does have a similar profile to the Ganesha hilts from Cirebon, but that's where it stops. I cannot find anything in the motif detail that indicates that there was an intent to create a Ganesha. I haven't seen a Janggelan with stars. Unusual.

25th July 2008, 05:23 PM	#50
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Unordinary Madura Hilt? Another example of a madura hilt, with rather unordinary motif... (Quite similar to David's hilt in #41) Attached Images

25th July 2008, 07:14 PM	#51
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Very nice . Here's another . Attached Images

26th July 2008, 12:00 AM	#52
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Another couple. Funny thing:- I've never seen any older examples of this type. Attached Images

10th February 2009, 06:22 AM	#53
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	SWASTIKA ornaments? Dear All, Apologize me, for reviving the old thread of Maduran hilts. I am posting this, after BluErf said in another post about "swastika ornaments" in some Cirebon hilts. But here, I found in this hilt of my collection, a Maduran hilt with supposed to be "swastika ornaments" as BlueErf said... Just an intermezzo.... GANJAWULUNG Attached Images

10th February 2009, 08:33 PM	#55
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Another . Not too uncommon . Attached Images

11th February 2009, 12:09 PM	#56
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	DOUBLE headed Dear All, This is a quite strange model of Maduran hilt -- a double-headed creature, with wild boar front face and bird rear face. Carricatural design? GANJAWULUNG Attached Images

13th February 2009, 05:27 PM	#59
rasjid Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Jakarta - Indonesia Posts: 114	Madura hilts Another ... sorry for the picture quality. Its the best I can manage at this stage. Attached Images

13th February 2009, 06:37 PM	#60
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Beautiful work !